Secondary School places allocated today [sad]

I hope your DGD has a nice birthday despite all this, gilly

There is a lot on FB today about this because I have a young friend whose older one is due to go to secondary school in September.
He has got the place he wanted as have his friends (much relief as the alternative school is not good). The point is that the LA seems to have operated a strictly 'distance from the school' policy so I can't understand why your DGD has been refused a place at a school she can see from her house to travel a long distance to another one.

I must say I had to travel a long way to school from the age of 7 but so did my friends so I was not alone and there was no alternative nearby.

I think the LA has discriminated against your DGD with its rigid interpretation of its policy of only allowing children from certain feeder schools to go to her secondary school of choice - and it was they who refused her a place at the feeder school anyway, if I remember rightly.

Try to enjoy her birthday

The answer is not a flippant 'homeschool' from someone who does not care two hoots and probably has no authority anyway.

School refusal is serious and they will have to think again.

Yes Jalima

During the night I was writing notes as things pooped into my head and one of the points that kept going round and around was why invite a child to come and look around the school that is close to where they live when they already know that she (and no doubt others) have zero chance of a place. Its almost cruel.

I wish our LEA operated a strictly distance from school policy as she would have undoubtedly have got in. They work on:

1) sibling link
2) feeder primary
3) looked after children
4) distance

Homeschooling is def not an option for us as mum and dad both work full time (mum works shifts) I work and DH works too. Yes you do remember rightly that we were refused a place in the feeders (on appeal) which in a way sentenced her to this outcome.

So she didnt get a feeder school at 4/5 years old with the other children around her? They are in the same position?

Group together. I didnt know schools were like this nowadays. It must be happening the same up and down the country in certain oversubscribed places. Oh dear.

Ankers, I think the family only moved to the area a year or so ago, so the situation is not what you're assuming.

I had a look at how places were allocated at friend's school and it was
1 children in care or newly adopted
2 siblings
3 distance from school
Furthest distance allocated was under 1.2 k

But there are a lot of secondary schools in the area.

Ana. Oh I see. Oh dear oh dear.

Sorry Ankers. Yes Ana is right. My family moved to the area just over a year ago.

As someone who had to get the 7.15 am bus to school every day and then change to another bus, I would say make a real nuisance of yourselves.

All that travel is a pain in the neck and detrimental to a child's education.

As my elder daughter always tells me " Shy bairns get nowt".

You could of course send her as a 'day-border' which means there is a small fee to pay, but it might be worth asking. After all you will have to cover the cost of bus fares yourself. Telling the local council that you cannot afford the bus fares is another option. Another thing you could try is to say that this is depressing your child so much she is refusing point blank to go to school. That might make them sit up and take notice.

I think it is a right mess myself!

Definitely arrange to have a meeting with your MP. And a meeting with the elected Leader of your Council. And maybe any concerns re safety issues to your Children and Families Division of Social Services (again, get an appointment to see someone with clout).Good luck

Get onto the waiting list of the nearby school as soon as possible, there are kids with places there who won't take them up.

Appeal, write a letter with bullet points as to why she should go to nearby school. Safety. Better suited to her needs academically. It has a specialism that plays to her strength/weakness. (We know that it has a very good English dept, and we are concerned that her KS2 SATs showed this to be a weak area) It does subjects the other school doesn't. Music, drama, dance. We were particularly impressed with the vision of the headteacher at Y6 evening. If appeal fails, appeal to the next level. If you know a secondary teacher, get them to go through the letter.

Secondly sell the other school to grand-daughter. Her friends going there? Better facilities for her favourite subject? Nicer newer buildings?

With hindsight (sorry) getting into an oversubscribed school when you don't go to the feeder school - you're on a hiding to nothing. All this parental choice rubbish means that living locally counts for less. Stay on the waiting list until the end of Y7.

I would strongly suggest that you try Mumsnet, starting your own thread - there are several admissions experts who are looking out for such threads at this time of year and have helped many posters in the past.

The first thing they will probably tell you is that if the order of over subscription criteria you have listed is the one the LA actually used, they are almost certainly breaking the law, as the Admissions Code (which all admissions authorities must abide by and which has the force of law) states that looked after children and formerly looked after children MUST have first priority. I don't know if this would be sufficient to make a difference on appeal, as it doesn't specifically apply to your grandchild, but this is something the experts on Mumsnet could tell you.

The other possibility (perhaps a slim chance) is whether the "selection of a feeder school or schools as an oversubscription criterion [is] transparent and made on reasonable grounds" as the Admissions Code also requires. I believe that past appeals have ruled that a particular school's selection has been unfair, but as I say, you would do better to get the expert advice you can find on Mumsnet. They will be able to tell you which grounds are likely to be considered by an appeal panel, and which are not.

Lastly, I would like to say that it is very unfair to say the people in the admissions office are being stupid or heartless to apply the admission criteria of each school strictly - they have no choice at all, it is the law and there is no leeway at this stage - only an appeals panel can look at the particular circumstances of a case.

Gillybob
Leave no stone unturned. Any thing and everything is worth
trying.Family circumstances etc ? Keep at it.

gilly I know you had a failed appeal at primary level - just wondering if you sought 'expert' advice with the technicalities?

On the MN thread, and I can't find the post right now as the thread is so long, someone said that you don't make an appeal based on why the other school is the wrong school (far away, long journey etc) but it should be based on why your first choice is the right one.

The Appeal process is not rigged but you will need to put forward a good case.

I would say though, that your granddaughter will not be 11years old forever. When I was 11, I was assigned to a school miles away in London which involved a train ride on the District line, and honestly I never looked back.

Good luck.

Yes Riverwalk we did seek "expert" advice on following the technicalities . We had a file full of (imo) very good evidence that I suspect they did not even read properly. THEY lied. There is not other way of putting it. I think I might be going to need some more help with this one though. How can I prove that a school would not suffer hardship by allowing one more year 7 child? As this seems to be what the primaries based their refusals on in years 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. (the appeals took so long to be heard that they had each moved up a year).

No disrespect Yorkshiregel but we are working class family. There is no way we could pay school fees. You are right though, it is a complete mess.

Lastly, I would like to say that it is very unfair to say the people in the admissions office are being stupid or heartless to apply the admission criteria of each school strictly

I had 2 long conversations with the LEA yesterday Rustybear and I stand by my remark that our LEA are totally heartless and clueless. How can it be right that children living miles away (in fact in another town) have been given places and a child living a stones throw away has not? Why allocate a school that is so far away? was it the only school left that had any places? There are others that would have still necessitated a bus journey but at least it would have only been one bus, not two. Have they really applied the admission criteria strictly?

The allocated school is probably one of (if not, THE) worst school in the whole area WendyBT and it was probably the only one that had any places left.

The appeal process is geared up towards the schools refusal. I have looked at the appeal statistics for various schools in the area and only a tiny percentage are allowed (which in itself seems odd). The school for which we are appealing has only allowed 1 appeal since 2013. So I think the odds are somewhat stacked against us. Why invite a child to look around the school knowing full well that he/she has zero chance of getting in? I don't get that?

Was the invitation to your GD personally or to the whole class? Perhaps that's just what they do every year, they couldn't leave out the children who won't be allocated places.

If they have applied the criteria strictly, then that will be the result of the process being properly applied. It is quite possible that children living further away qualified before your granddaughter and that the school allocated was the nearest one with places. You may feel that the criteria are unfair, but if they comply with the Admissions Code and were properly published, then they are the criteria that must be used.

In that case, then they are not heartless or clueless for not changing the offer because of your granddaughter's circumstances - they could not possibly do that on the basis of a parent's complaint - if they do, should they then take away your granddaughter's place when another relative complains and they feel their circumstances are even worse? Or go on admitting children until there are 40 or more in each class? They may feel sorry for your granddaughter, they may agree it is very hard on her, but they cannot say so on the phone, all they really can do is to advise you of your rights.

If they haven't applied the process correctly (and if your list of the order of criteria is actually correct, then this is a possibility) then they have broken the law. You should be able to get documents showing how each school's places have been allocated - how many in each criterion, how far away the last child in each category lives, etc. In most cases they are available on the local authority website, but if not then they should be made available to anyone who appeals. If they have breached the law, the LA could be reported to the School's Adjudicator - if you really think it is a possibility then I suggest you initially ask the Mumsnet experts who may be able to advise whether you would be able to take it further.

Having worked in a very popular and oversubscribed secondary school, it's surprising how quickly places can become available to those on the waiting list. In fact, some don't even turn up in September. They move away and don't tell the school. It's important to get your GC on the waiting list asap. In the meanwhile you will have to go down that awful appeals path. If it is actually impossible to get her to the allocated school, you could possibly have a case.

A popular school.
Fair criteria
The system isn't rigged

I'm afraid that as difficult it is to accept, your dgd has quite fairly, it a place.

But a lot can change between now and September (it did for my son, initially no place in first choice so went on waiting list, and by September he was in as others hadn't taken up their places)

We have already put her on the waiting list of 3 schools grannytotwins one which is close to home and 2 that are one bus ride away rather than two. We have been told that she has no chance getting into the either of the 2 next closest as she won't qualify on distance. We won't know where she is on the waiting list until the end of the month. Have it on good authority she could be close to the top based on distance but lower down if a sibling/feeder/looked after child is also on the list. its' a minefield.

One thing we agree on Rustybear is that the one offered was probably the only one left with places. it is the worst school in the area by miles so no-one in their right mind would choose to go there.

No Ana the invitation was via a website link after we "expressed an interest" way back last June. Not the whole class as her primary is nowhere near her home and the secondary school. No-one in her existing class will be going there.

Not sure how having to travel on 2 buses, through 2 towns, passing at least 3 (maybe 4) schools can be fair Bbbface but maybe we have different ideas of what is "fair". I could except the "fairness" if every child who did get a place lived as close or closer to school than she does. But I think that would be almost impossible given that she lives at the bottom of the school field.

Can she do home ed while waiting for a space at her prefered school? I have found education authorities keen to keep bums on seats and will go out of their way to assist if they think a family may take a child out altogether.

It is an onerous jounrey, I had to do similar when I was a kid and it was so tiring.

Appeal and many, many fingers will be crossed here for you all.