Ask a DIL...

(And my house rules follow NannyandGrampys to the letter! And it applies to the DGdogs too when they come to stay while their family is on holiday)

When caring for babies we followed their home routine as much as possible, asked questions to be updated on thinking and their parents wishes. It seemed sensible and helpful for everyone. Our family trusted us not to harm their babies. As they mature It becomes different. At our home our grandchildren do not use the beds as trampolines, swap beds in the night, stand on the chairs, sit on the kitchen worktop, wander around eating food or drinking, refuse to try a new food, ignore polite requests to help lay the table, wander round with felt tips in their hands. I could go on. These are all things they have been observed doing at home. So yes, our home our rules, they are happy here, they understand the 'why' of it from our viewpoint which has helped them be adaptable in the homes of their friends. We don't criticise the structure in their home, their parents don't criticise the structure in ours. No problem!

I'm actually going to step away from this thread now as I can see it was a mistake to try. I was no way trying to be a guru and wish you all the best for the future.

I am sorry if it seems I've overstepped the mark. I was merely only trying to offer a perspective from some DIL's of this generation. I can see I've caused offense when none was intended at all.

And Anya, I have no angst and have not been rude to a single person on this site. I certainly don't speak for everyone of my age at all, I am just simply trying to offer some perspective. I actually found your retort rude and uncalled for. You seem to be the one with hostility and that is uncalled for. Do you speak to your DIL like that? Why exactly do I need a helping hand?

I have three DC all bringing their DC / my DGC up completely differently so we do have the my house, my rules otherwise it'd favour one of them. If just one family is present then it's different and I will ask first if something is allowed.

I think the present generation of GPs is in a new and difficult position being the first sandwich generation. Previously our generation would only looked after the really old ones and the new parents were on their own with maybe just a bit of advice. Mothers didn't work full stop and didn't need the childcare. Only the really poor did that. Now too, the older generation has more money and is looking for ways to help out - as in the case of buying a cot. There's a lot of tiptoeing around and/or sticking noses in where they're not wanted. Now both parents work. It's new ground. The rules have changed. In fact there aren't any! Patience and empathy is needed on all sides.

It does seem DIL123 that you are setting yourself up to speak for all DILs. Not possible, all families have differing issues and believe it or not some of us live together in harmony.
Having said that of course mistakes are made, misunderstandings occur and we have to be tolerant of each other. Child care ideas change with each generation and GPs must understand that, but not all their ideas are without value either. As N&G said its a question of trust mainly. I agree MILs need to build a rapport with their DILs before child care is an issue, this works both ways of course. FILs do not seem to have the same problems, don't remember any threads about their relationship difficulties with DILs.

Thank you for your honesty DIL, but your experience is *totally foreign to me. And while I do recognise the "grabby gran/aunt/ older woman" Thatbags I am thankful that again it did not apply to me either as a DIL or a Granny now.
Of course if the DGC are here I ask mum what to give them -one forgets, but Ella's or Organix squishy food pouches seem generally acceptable as does granny's chicken/leek/sweet potato/squash mush and I DO KNOW not to put salt in it! For the toddlers I would ask because there is no point in cookin something that ends up in the dog.
Teaching babies unsuitable words?? That's seems a bit ignorant, so who'd do that anyway?
But bless you, decline to babysit"? You've got to have a cast iron previous engagement!!
How often have I read of grandparents morally blackmailed into regular childcare for days each week (check out threads with titles such as Told I don't Love my Grandchild enough) How many grans jump in to help when chicken pox/tummy bugs/unspecified lurgies mean DGC can't go to nursery or school and both parents are at work? Of course we love to see our DGC but sometimes geographical distance or physical infirmity make is a sacrifice too.
Your posts are very reasoned and as I said I appreciate your sincerity, but so often when there are relationship problems between mums and grans the word "entitled" springs to mind.
Each generation expects and tries to be the best parents they can be but your generation and Gina Ford no more invented "parenting" than Dr Spock, Penelope Leach or Miriam Stoppard.
PS we didn't have "parenting" or even "birthing" We had babies and we brought up children

I wouldn't leave my child anywhere where I know my rules aren't going to be followed.

Out of interest DIL what are your rules and how do they apply to your MIL?

I'm flabbergasted at some of the rules grans on here have to put with! For example very proscriptive orders on bedtime, TV, food, etc. Some grandparents are more or less full-time childminders with a long list of do's and dont's, often very petty like no white bread and specific times for fresh air!

I'm not even going to apologise -I AM a Nana who has the 'my house, my rules' scenario going on.

I am firmer than either of my daughters and their husbands- or maybe for that I should read I am consistent. My 4 grandchildren get it !! They know that if I say no- I mean it. If I tell them not to poke the dog - there's no sneaky last poke before the naughty step.

My daughters feel that in my home I am entitled to be the one making the rules because I am the one enforcing them. In their homes I would not dream of contradicting them. None of our 'rules' are onerous on the little ones, just for their safety and -its true- my sanity !! So we sit at the table to eat meals, we don't draw on walls, we do flush the toilet....

It means they behave well here and when we take them out, they sleep well here, no wandering around and bed swapping at night, they do eat well - its not all chicken nuggets and chips.

It means that their mothers and fathers trust me to not do anything that would either harm the children or change their home rules and the children understand what is possible here and what is possible at home.

I appreciate what you're saying DIL but I did expect to bathe, carry, dress my grandchildren . Not to the detriment of their mothers but to support them and forge a relationship with the children.

Forgive me DiL123 just who do you think you are talking to? Can I suggest you take your angst and your inability to deal with human relationships in a 'grown up' and emotionally intelligent way back to a site like Mumsnet.

I have no issues with my own DiL (or SiL) and none of the supposed desire to take over that you seem to attribute to us. Yes, good point upthread, we've all been DiLs ourselves at one time and learned how to give and take.

As for offering yourself as a guru or 'Dear Marge' you've got a bloody cheek when you obviously need a helping hand yourself.

No of course I cannot speak for every DIL! I'm very sorry if I gave that impression as I absolutely thought it was a given (obviously) that I am not representing a whole generation of DILS just those if the shoe fits. If your relationship may have broken down with your son/DIL and you have no idea why, it could be that DIL is just a horrible person or it could be that your behaviour comes across differently to the way its intended.

Firstly I apologize if anyone thinks i'm projecting! I for sure have a strained relationship with my MIL but know from her perspective she thinks I am overbearing, controlling etc.

I know this isn't the situation for everyone - I just meant it to be for those where "the shoe fits" kind of thing. AKA if you have issues with your DIL and are not sure where she might be coming from, or maybe contact has decreased and you don't know why, then I thought I could offer some recent perspective as to why.

If it makes any difference for anyone who assumed i'm a teenager i'm almost 26 so not a teen.

I wholeheartedly agree to not expect childcare or free babysitting or anything of the sort. There's no harm in asking in my book but asking without expectation is the way forward. You are not obliged to give up your time for your AC to go out, you can do so if you wish or you can decline. I do think a lot of AC and partners do expect that granny will always be there to babysit because she should "want" to spend time with GCs. Of course they do, but it also needs to be a mutually convenient time. To me its off putting when something is expected and I personally feel for grandparents who are expected religiously to look after GCs without any consideration into what the GP wants!

I'm probably going to cause waves here but i'm strongly for "the parents rules go" for the child. If a grandparent goes against parents rules because they think their way is better then they're probably going to cause a lot of trouble. The same goes for mothers of daughters. I wouldn't leave my child anywhere where I know my rules aren't going to be followed.

Also in my experience I've had to "make" rules which really should be common sense because otherwise my MIL would just do what she wanted without a consideration for my child. Such things as not giving unsuitable tastes to a very young baby, not trying to teach baby unsuitable words etc. No one else had "rules" because everyone else had enough courtesy to not presume it was okay to do those things. I know from that point MIL felt very much like I was being controlling and our relationship broke down terribly aftr that.

I think both sides are guilty of expectations, but to me its natural for a DIL to have expectations regarding her motherhood, surely? They expect to bathe, feed, hold, carry, rock and dress their little ones. They expect to bond with their ones and be the ones to make the choices in the best interests of the child. Grandparents may over assume that visits will increase after baby is born, they may take baby for overnight stays, that they will be doing nappy duty or feeding duty or whatever. Some people simply aren't comfortable with this. I expect that when I make a decision for my baby it will be respected and upheld. Some grandparents expect its their house their "rules" or that, as an elder, they get to have final say. And this is where it becomes a power struggle and why relationships break down.

My DIL is of the OP's generation too and for that reason I butt out of everything. We only visit when we are told it is convenient (once a year so far) only buy the odd thing we are told to ( we are provided with a Christmas list) and so on. I accept I am only a step gran but worry my OH is missing out on his grandson. I just accept DIL is a bit of a control freak. DIL's other half walks a tightrope too and I think it's just a question of time before he outgrows the relationship.

You say that you will answer questions but surely every Relationship is different and you cannot speak for every DiL. Not all Dils will be upset about the same thing or want the same things from their MiL. There are as many Dils complaining about lack of interest from GPS as there are those who complain about the opposite.

I would be very interested to read what prompted you to post.

There is a species of gran called Grabby Gran. They have forgotten what it felt like to have a new baby that is theirs and the most precious amazing thing ever! Hands off, everyone else, until I'm ready to share!

Either that or they have remembered and have gone all broody. Save daughters in law from broody mothers in law, I say.

Dons tin hat and buggers off. Good luck, DIL123. Be assertive.

Very true suzied. Children are very adaptable and easily accept that what they can do in one house they can't in another.

I think that the problems all stem from a difficult relationship & although I read about them I happily haven't come across it myself. I think it all stems from expectations and rules. I agree with MawBroon that rules do not belong in families because as soon as either side have them they create problems.
Step one seems to be to make a relationship from the start that is not dependant on the husband/son. Get to know each other as people and spend time alone.
Step 2 is to have the grandparents equal in status- after all they are equal to the child. There are bound to be problems if one set are 'family' and the other set are 'visitors' and one set are trusted & allowed to get away with bad behaviour when the other set are not trusted in the same way and have to watch what they say & do. It seems odd to me that MIL is the one not trusted when she produced, through nature and nurture, the one person in the whole world that you have chosen to have a child with! She must have got something right!!
Step 3 is pick your battles and let go of the trivia. The outfit thing is trivia- babies get through lots of outfits & are not bothered what they wear. If a Christmas outfit is your thing- thankfully something I have never even thought about- there is plenty of time over the Christmas period for more than one.
If someone wants to buy you an expensive bit of baby equipment then let them! Put the money you have saved into a savings account for a time that you really need it- the teenage years.
I think that what goes around comes around. If you have been a laid back DIL yourself you are more likely to be a laid back MIL who will in turn get a laid back DIL.
Neither side should have 'expectations' - they may well be disappointed. Enjoy the journey together - new experiences for all.

Yes I do have some rules in my house such as I don't want my GC running around the house eating as I don't want marmite smeared all over my furniture and curtains , so I do say they should sit at the table to eat. I don't think there's anything wrong in that, if the parents don't mind crumbs all over their own house that's up to them. The parents don't mind they just say" nanny doesn't want your mess - do as she says". I would also prefer they kept felt tipped pens off the walls that sort of rule is fine if you are looking after them in your house. I think young parents get more uptight about new baby care and I can remember being the same.

I have indeed seen threads where people seem to think that sort of behaviour is acceptable, but I have also read of young women whose attitude to their MIL makes Les Dawson look positively enlightened!
This may not be Jeremy Kyle but there are some examples of intransigent behaviour from both sides. As for the contention about a meaningful relationship with a MIL - oh dear, not even you in your day?
Every teenager knows thinks it is right, that the previous generation are dinosaurs, and fuddy duddies, but that's a bit of a cliché and teenagers are not yet mature adults. Being a parent should be part of the maturing process so unless DIL is talking about very young and immature DILs , I would have hoped both they and their DH might show signs of growing up other than a territorial battle with their MIL.

I think FarNorth has the right idea. I would never "declare "Gran's house, Gran's rules"? Sometimes they are referring to quite important things yet feel entitled to overrule the parents, or to go behind their backs" my daughters would be rightly furious if we didn't follow their rules for their children. I have also never met a young woman who wants a "meaningful relationship" with MIL, rubbish, that.

Jalima haven't you seen the threads where people declare "Gran's house, Gran's rules"? Sometimes they are referring to quite important things yet feel entitled to overrule the parents, or to go behind their backs.

Dear oh dear DIL, you have had an unfortunate experience. I don't recognise this scenario at all. I have 6 grandchildren. Their parents have the control in their upbringing. We are the providers of practical help, support and source of lots of unconditional love!

The PIL believe they get to ovverule DIL and make decisions, or feel entitled to make choices about what baby eats, sleeps, naps, drinks, where baby goes, parental choices

Rubbish

DIL all I can say is , that may well be your experience, but I don't recognise it. Neither I or co-grandparents have bought "Christmas outfits". I had not even heard of the phenomenon!
Yes we have knitted/crocheted /(bought) blankies or trawled John Lewis for tiny garments, who hasn't? Most young mums are grateful if their parents or PILs buy them their first travel system (which seems to come in at close to the price and size of a small family car these days) , the cot, high chair etc ( usually under instruction) or buy "spares" for visits so that parents don't have to transport half the nursery on a lunch visit.
I actually do not doubt your sincerity, but just don't see where you are coming from. If young parents want to be independent they have to behave like adults too. That includes mature reasoned behaviour, not spouting Gina Ford or YouTube as if their pronouncements came down from the mountain with Moses. It also includes not insisting on an entitlement to regular nights away for weddings/weekend breaks/hen or stag do's and assuming that Granny will be available to do overnight babysitting or sleepovers. She might be delighted to, but don't assume. And if you are entrusting your baby to her because you want a night out and a few drinks, have the good grace to trust her.
OK we might or have known first time that the picture goes on the front on a pampers nappy - but we taught you to eat off a spoon and we potty trained you so we can't be entirely stupid.
Rules? IMHO these do not belong in families.

Way too much pressure nowadays to be the perfect mum with the perfect baby who must have everything. Glad I was part of the muddle through generation. I couldn't have stood the pressure of failure that media, celebrity culture and self appointed experts put on new mums. No wonder everything feels like a criticism!