Lost again

Glad that our words help, Nanban!

I'm wondering, since you were, sadly, co once before, did you see it coming this time? Or did it come as a complete shock?

Being 'allowed' to see the GC in such situations is a mixed blessing. You wait for the message telling you what you must do on the day, you book the hotel (having been told which one to book) and hope that, when the time comes, you will still be able to see them. On the day you worry all the time that something you do will be twisted into doing something wrong, something you say may be misinterpreted and that you won't get them home at the stated time. The innocent GC say things which make it very clear what their parent's think about you. For the week afterwards you wait for the backlash. At times you wonder if it is all worth it.

So so sorry Nanban.

So you've had experience with this, Nonnie? (I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your story.)

Dear Nonnie -how terrible that your words resonate, same for same. How can such an awful pattern be so familiar. Our d-in-l simply stopped speaking to us, took herself off into another room and just spoke through the children. From then on we had very few more meetings when the children were handed over to us for an hour, or a trip to a park after which we would hand them back never knowing if that was to be the last time. On the very long journeys home we discussed how we could get through another time, could we stand the stress. And then another summons would come and off we went again. It sounds horribly like you go through the same and for that I am so so sorry.

Nanban how are you? you still have your humour I see

Oh Nonnie how awful! for you and Nanban

I have a little experience of this. Nowhere near as severe, but still upsetting. My DD is living in Europe, so I don't get to see that much of them, but her husband resents me being 'granny' and having a close relationship with my GS. He never had it as a child, in fact he was in many ways neglected by his parents, and didn't know his GPs so he doesn't really grasp that I'm not usurping their role when my GS comes to me. For example when my GS was very young, if he reached out to hold my hand I had to pull away. When we were in the car SiL would watch in the mirror to see if we were holding hands. My DD actually told me I could hug GS but not when SiL was around. We came very close to falling out permanently, but I wouldn't allow anything to come between my DD and I. Consequently I have a well-bitten tongue.

It seems to me that this alienation is a form of abuse. It's very controlling behaviour. for Nonnie and Nanban. Sad name Nanban.

One thing to bear in mind is that if a DC or Sil/Dil does a CO, it means they are the CO type and can do it again and again after resuming contact. Each of us has a repertoire of behaviour resources, and once CO has been chosen as a tool and worked, we/they can use it again for all sorts of situations. What makes it even more difficult is that often these passive aggressive types don't make it clear what triggered the CO (or it was triggered by something internal anyway) leaving us thinking it was something we did, so we avoid doing that again when contact is resumed only to find ourselves CO again out of the blue. My theory is CO behaviour is triggered by an emotional storm in the cutter-off because someone with better coping mechanism can manage our undesired behaviour in a more positive way. Assuming that is that we're not actually a dangerous psychopath who literally has to be physically avoided :D

'Excommunication' is absolutely the right word. Since discovering Gransnet I've found that the problem is not rare. For many reasons, in different families, it exists. It's not something I ever imagined could happen, in earlier years. I am only thankful that some of the people who were in my life have gone, by natural means. They simply would not have understood.

Me, I am not heartbroken. I will not allow my heart to be broken. I still have a good life, a loving husband who is a soulmate in every sense of the word, enough money, a warm and comfortable home.

Yesterday in church I was talking to a young woman whose grandad - he'd been a real church stalwart - has recently died at 93. He had a lovely little GGD, a little blondie of about 1 year - whom he'd seen every day. I thought of my two GGDs born premmy in Sept 2012. Never seen them, been told I never will. Really, all down to my surviving eldest D and her younger D. They even came to her sister's funeral - my younger D died very suddenly 16 years ago, never saw her 40th birthday. You would think, as I do - they might think 'people are not here for ever, not for long, let's all be there for one another'. Not a bit of it. My lovely husband is 'a snake' and marrying him was disloyal to her dad who died in 1992. Fortunately we're on good terms with my elder GD, who is gay, so no GGC from that direction! But she's the only one out of the lot of them.

Everyone who posts on here has a different story and I had no idea it was so widespread. I could never have imagined it, but it happens.

This is all so sad..... from what I gather the DiL wants 100% control, contact and attention?
I have a SiL just like that.
Haven't seen my brother in over 10 years.

Margrete, don't be so sure you won't get GGC from gay GD. My daughter is gay and a year ago had a dear little boy whose father is a gay male friend of hers, by IVF. They are both wonderful parents to him so he will grow up having a Mummy and a Daddy, just the same as if they split up before he was born but without the lingering resentments and conflicts that divorced couples often harbour.

Margrete

Thanks for the kind words and flowers.

I don't have a huge amount of self confidence so have spent many hours of my life trying to work out what I did wrong, running it honestly around some friends and family and being told over and over again that it is not my fault. I don't expect anyone to believe what I say because they are only hearing one side of the story but I can honestly say I have only ever offered love (and paid for things too) and, even when having done nothing wrong have apologised in the hope of improving matters. Nothing I have done has worked, I don't think anyone could have been kinder than DH and I have been but we have been accused of all sorts of things in a general way but with no specific examples of our supposed bad behaviour. All we can do now is ask 'how high' when DiL says 'jump'.

One day our GC will be able to make up their own minds and decide what kind of people we are. Two years ago one of them said"Grandma doesn't tell lies but Mummy does" so they are already aware in a small way. I am just glad to think that, at their age, children accept what happens at home is normal and it is only when they are older that they can look at their home life objectively and see what their mother has done over the years. Then they will see that they had a loving wider family who they were prevented from visiting and enjoying.

On the other hand I have two truly wonderful DiLs and two other GC who I see and enjoy, they don't live near but Skype is wonderful and they come and see us at every opportunity. They keep reminding me that I am a nice person and that none of it is my fault.

Nonnie the first part of your last post, mirrors my situation, 5yrs+ since I've seen my beloveds

My mother was a CO type, she used to CO me for weeks at the slightest offence. I used to have to go round with flowers to make up with her. One time I didn't, and she maintained silence for 13 years - in the end she made contact with me, and never CO'd me again. Anyway, at 5 her mother went through a marriage crisis, and she went to live with her grandmother for a while. When the mother came back for her, she wouldn't talk to her and insisted on staying with the grandmother. During her growing up, her mind was poisoned against her father's family, who as soon as she was adult started trying to contact her but she'd constantly reject them, even though I thought they were totally genuine and just wanted to have her in the family. Basically my mother was simply a spiteful cut-offy type of person, and it looks like she might even have been born with that personality.

Nanban Like all the grans here, I am so sorry for the predicament you find yourself in. All I can add is that my lovely son cut off all contact with no apparent warning, and a decade later returned in similar fashion. I hope that yours will behave the same eventually.

Magrete, my deepest sympathies on the loss of your younger d. How heartbreaking! xx

I'm sorry, too, that eldest d and younger gd refuse to accept your 2nd dh and have pushed you away for that reason! How would they feel if someone co them because of who they loved/married?

But I'm glad your older GD is still in your life. And yes, as RM says, you could still have gc through her.

Glad, too, that you're able to appreciate all the positives in your life and not dwell on the negative. Not everyone can seem to do that, but I'm glad you can.

RM, it sounds to me as if your mum was very hurt by her childhood experiences. I'm sure she felt abandoned by her own mum and that "a while" seemed like "forever" to her. I'm not surprised she rejected her mum when she returned, a lot of kids would do that. That's where I imagine the co pattern began, feeling co by her mum and then doing it in return as a defense mechanism.

But I think your experience with her shows something significant. When you accepted the co and left her to come around or not on her own, she did, even though not till 13 years later. Sometimes, imo, the best thing the distanced person can do is give the other person space... "If you love something, let it go..."

But still, I know her behavior must have wounded you deeply over the years. I'm so very sorry. (((Hugs)))

Nonnie, it's hard to know how much stock to put in what kids say, but it sounds as if there are already some tensions between your difficult dil and her kids. I hope they can resolve it over the years. But I also think it means they will figure out the truth for themselves. Since everyone else, including your other dils, tells you it's not your fault, please believe them. It's probably more about her or the marriage than you and dh.

Hm999, how wonderful that ds returned! I hope you continue to enjoy a good relationship!

For anyone who hasn't read it Abandoned Parents, the Devil's Dilema written in 2004. Controlling, abusive and so much more is what happens and for no other reason than they can, they have the weaponry, they have our grandchildren. When most of us just want to get through life, doing our best, hoping to make our families happy, it is so hard to come up against the absolute opposite. I rather suspected that my d-in-l read and maybe contributes that I was super-cautious, but it did me no good and I am not covering up any more.

So cruel how do these people sleep at night, what on earth makes them like it. Hopefully one day you will see them.
It’s so heartbreaking.

Nonnie, I meant to ask, is there anything that seems to upset dil or ds even though it's innocent? Any clue in what the kids repeat as to what sets the parents off? I ask because perhaps you and dh could avoid those things to ensure continuing to see your gc? It may be something that seems minor, but if it bothers ds/dil, it may be worth avoiding.

So sorry Nanban, what a hideous situation. Nothing l can say or do will help but l am thinking of you ???

Nanban, any idea why dil stopped speaking to you? Was there an incident that upset her? Did you ask ds if there was a problem? What did he say?