Grandson confusion

Judthepud, I agree with much of what has been suggested in most of the posts, although I don’t think I’d role play the possible scenario as it could be seen as coaching him in an undesirable way. I think you should support him as much as possible to find his father, don’t say anything negative about him, and find a neutral place to meet if you are successful in finding him. But do not leave him with his father, just stay in the background but don’t leave whichever building they are in.
One of my children has an adopted child, who is too young to ask too much at present, but we are all aware that the day may well come, and how we need to support our little one to find the natural family, and let him discover these people for themselves. Our opinions on the natural family don’t matter, although from what we know, it’s unlikely that any of us would meet in the normal way of events. I guess your DG’s father might well fall into that category. Remember he has had positive role models (male) in his life and he therefore knows how a reasonable and caring adult male should behave.

I’ve been here with my DD and even with professional help she has suffered so much. At the end of the day, he is going to want to get to know his bio Dad and your DD’s role is to support him through this difficult journey. No matter how awful his Dad is, your DGS has the right to make up his own mind about people. As someone with a mother who will never forgive my very selfish, absent father, I still get outraged when she bad mouths him even though I recognise his many faults. It’s a bit like moaning about your husband...you can do it but woe betide anybody who does it, you automatically feel defensive. If bio Dad is as bad as you say he is, your grandson will learn for himself but it may be that his relationship with his Dad might be good.

Judthepud,
Just a thought..I don't know if your son is still at primary or has moved to secondary education. I work in school, and we have a parental involvement worker. Every school should have one but maybe under a different title.
Might it be worth your daughter making an appointment to see him or her? They have fantastic access to people who can help and may be able to support your Grandson in the right way in makin g an approach to his Dad. I know how you must feel and must dread it, but to prevent him now could still blow up in your face later.
Get some advice on how to handle this so that the emotional fall out for your Grandson and daughter and indeed you is much better handled.
Good Luck

Our 3 yr old DGS dad walked out 2 days before Christmas last year. Not seen him since. There have been lots of things happening eg he went to the house when they were out numerous times taking tv one time and DGS toys another (because he bought them!) amongst other things. He has been violent and aggressive to DD in front of DGS. She has had to take an injunction out against him.
And has had to move from the area at the advice of police, victim support and child protection services. But when DGS asks why daddy did this or took that DD replies 'I don't know, shall we ask him when we see him'. She has never said thing against him in front of his son. But has kept all paperwork ie solicitors and police correspondence in case he needs the truth when he's older. He is a beautiful kind soul and a credit to DD.

I do hope things have changed for the better since I was faced with a very similar problem all of those years ago.

Family mediation was relatively new and I suggested it (via my divorce solicitor) Appointments were made he didn't bother to turn up. Social workers were worse than useless and ended up creating problems where there were none. It was all very one sided with me doing all the bending over backwards and him getting chance after chance after chance. Call me cynical but he was very good looking so I think the "laydees" from SS's were taken in by his charm.

I think if the child has not seen his father since he was a baby I would not facilitate a meeting.
When the boy becomes 18 he can do all the searching he wants himself and hopefully he will be mature enough to deal with it by then.

There are ' world wise' eleven year olds and 'non' world wise eleven years olds. How do you view your GS.?
The fact he wants to meet his biological father is based on what? GS claims he wants to hear his fathers 'side of the story' .Of course he is bound to be curious and if his father has never made any attempts to get to know his son then approach with caution. Have you thought of contacting social services as they must be familiar with this type of situation. Don't deny GS the chance to meet his father but first contact SS who must be advised of why your GS has never met his father. This will be the safest way and it will then be up to the father to say if he wants to meet his son. Let your GS know what you are going to do as at least it will show even if you are not entirely happy in his meeting with his dad you support your GS right to know more about his dad. Good luck.

From experience I would avoid SS's like the bloomin' plague!

Thank you all for your well considered responses. I'll have a chat with DD and see what she feels would be the best way forward. Some points I'm going to take on board: definitely help DGS with trying to meet father; make sure they are NOT alone on neutral ground; get counselling support for him (the school may have someone as he has just moved to secondary). Following your comment about social workers making things worse, gilly we will perhaps try to avoid that route. I know we shouldn't 'badmouth' the man, but I really feel DGS needs to have some idea of the manipulative nature of his father. It may slightly prepare him for the hurt, rather than be shocked and think it is all his fault. The man is the perfect example of a gaslighter. DD has already said to GS that she may be biased.

Coincidentally (or is it) DD has just received an email from the man sent to the main server of her work for all to see that he wants to 'discuss' his son or else he will 'go public'! He does know her personal email address!

Gillybob.Very sad when a parent does not wish to meet their offspring. They cannot be forced into doing this and unfortunate but SS, however attractive to the beholder , have no power in forcing a parent to acknowledge their child. As long as your were financially supported in bringing up your child then there was little else any one could do. Courts cannot force a person to be a 'parent' in the way of a how we perceive a parent should be.The court is there for the parent who is caring for the child and has enough support financially to care for their child as a single parent.

Hi Jud,
This is tricky as you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
My situation was with my abusive and subversive mother and protecting my daughter. From the start I told my daughter the problems I had encountered and why I made a decision at the age of 20 to remove myself from the pain she caused- everyone.
I told my daughter that when she reached the age of 18 she was free to form a relationship with her grandmother and judge for herself. By 18 she had seen the behaviours dished out by my mother to my sisters who continued to have this damaging woman in their lives.
I think I made the right choice and my daughter has bothered very little. She did once suggest she visit her and she knew she would be spoilt. I countered that very quickly by telling her that if she took the devils money then she would pay the devils price.
Perhaps your daughter could tell her son that he is free to go after his father when he is 16, show him the court documents etc and any other proof you have of trying to keep this man in his life. Especially the boast about ducking out! And tell him that if his father wanted to have contact the courts would not stop him, nor would his mother and that it is up to the father, as the adult, to do the right thing.
I think honesty is the only way to deal with this. If the child- and in my view he is too young to be able to make a well informed choice- is insistent then his mother should take charge, be the one to contact the father, tell him the request and arrange for him to see his son in her presence. I would take a bet he will not take up this offer.
That may not stop the subversion - don't you hate social media- but eventually the father will let himself down. I would not wish that disappointment on your grandson coming into his emotional growth years so let him have the freedom of knowing he can when he has reached an age of rational thought. About 16.

An 11 year old should also be guided to understand that the world is full of people who twist things for matters of convenience and sympathy. And that someone can also be a someone who should have a child's interests at heart.
Use an example, something close to home.

Anyway he is one very lucky boy to have such a protective and concerned Mother and Grandmother.

I agree with much of what you say sarahellenwhitney .

My son's biological father had no interest in seeing him at all, neither did he have any interest in paying me anything towards his upbringing and he got away with it his entire life. Believe you me I tried so hard over the years to encourage contact but failed miserably as he clearly had better things to do than see his own son. This did not stop my poor boy from yearning to see this man who, in his mind was an almost saintly character..... "my dad" who if he could only meet would fall head over heels in love with him, take me to footy and McDonalds etc. like other dads do. Of course you can't tell a 7,8,9,10......17 year old boy that his father is a complete arshol waste of space can you? You can't tell him that the reason he can't do this that or the other like your mates is that I have no money and his arshol father chooses not to pay a penny towards your upkeep. You can't tell him that the same man is driving around in a top of the range Merc, living in the posh side of town with his new family....... (who he would later leave too).

Men like this (and there are plenty still around) never stop to think what they have done to a child. My son is 38 now and can still cry like a baby for the father he never got to know. I attended his funeral with my son a few years ago and he broke down in the knowledge that, that was it, the finish and he would NEVER have a chance to get to know this man. It's heartbreaking still.

I agree about being supportive and not bad mouthing the father. My GS did not have such an asshole for a father but a medium one. I could not stand to be around him expecially when he made insinuations about my daughter and played the poor me card.

It was my husband who was well respected by the father and his friends. He went out of his way to keep the contact open. Gradually he was able to influence the father who did not want to be seen as the bad boy by his friends. Appearance is everything.

My GS is 13 now and does stay for holidays with his father which he does enjoy up to a point but he now sees his father for what he is and doesn't have a lot of expectation from him.

The difficulty for me is having to swallow my true feelings. I will be polite to the father but when he suggests we go for dinner with him and his new wife, that is a big step too far! My husband feels he has done his job and at least the boy has a relationship with hisfather, younger half brother and his father's family.

On the subject of social media.... judthepud I think your DD should send an email or text (so there is proof of sending) telling the father that he should refrain from sharing private information about their son on social media (as long as she sticks to this herself too) she could in the same text/email invite him to a (mediation) meeting (no child present) where they can discuss the situation face to face like adults (perhaps they could each take someone along as a witness). She should hammer home the point that she will not be blackmailed or discussed on social media. It is within the child's best interest that there is contact with his father (blimey I tried so hard to facilitate this but failed) but on fair and decent terms.

I believe some LA's have family mediators for just such situations. Maybe one of the family charities Gingerbread, families need fathers etc. might be of some help too??

My only advice is to seek experienced and specialist support to see you all through this very difficult time for your DGS and the family. Others have suggested various charities that may be expert in this type of situation. I know too that the Salvation Army traces lost relatives and I suspect will be able to offer advice on how to manage any potential reunion.. before you ever get to that point. A lot of groundwork to be done with 'neutral' people before any meetings.

My son started thinking about his absent, serial womanising father at around 13. He suddenly began to have angry outbursts which I first put down to puberty. Finally after one episode, we had a good talk and he asked why his father didn't want him. I suspect that itvwas seeing his friends with a good father figure which brought it on. I told him it wasn't him that wasn't wanted, it was me and the responsibility. I explained how we had met, and how the relationship had broken down and why. I didn't hold back about his father's feckless behaviour, but reassured him that if he ever wanted to see him I wouldn't stand in his way and do my best to arrange it. After we had a lovely hug, I let him think about it and asked him a few days later what he would like to do. His reply was ' Why would I want to see that '@#/*&!' We have always been very close and honest with each other and now aged 29, I couldn't be prouder of him.

On the other hand, I'm still left wondering who my father even was and it still haunts me daily at my age. There's an unexplainable longing to know your roots which no-one who is not in that situation can understand. I hope this young boy can find his way through this with the help of his loving family. Best wishes.

Given the email DD received from the father, the offer of mediation is a good one. I'll run that past her. Not sure what is available here in NI. Any suggestions?

Sorry to hear of this predicament. I don't think my experience is going to help you any at all.
I left my Ex when my youngest was still a baby. He would not do anything useful and was just a drain on me. He was really nasty about us and to us. He pushed for access and failed. This caused him to be even worse to the children and me thinking we were to blame but he started the court action and the Judge decided. He could not see that and certainly did not argue it out with the Judge.
Ex stayed away until all children were left school. He then reappeared and has been causing trouble ever since. He is still lying and making himself out to be the big I am and at the same time acting like the poor invalid who must be tended to. I don't know if he actually has Disability Award, I do though at the highest rate.
I can not go back to court and have him kept away from my children as they are adults. However as adults they have the right to make their own choices. They are listening to him and I think believing his lies despite what they know and I am not happy with this.
I don't know what the answer would be. I don't think there is a good time for children to meet with certain types of parents.
Wishing you all the best

....he wants to 'discuss' his son or else he will 'go public'!

You have gotten a lot of good advice about how to handle the possibility of a 'meet and greet', but you may need to go a bit further.

Your posts describe this man as an aggressive, manipulative, liar. What exactly does he need to discuss about his son? .....that he wants to make good on eleven year's worth of child support?.... or that he wants his son back after all!

Your grandson is still a minor and a custody battle is not outside the realm of possibilities. Why not contact a solicitor? I think your daughter may benefit from some much needed legal advice, as well.

I know I've mentioned this on other threads - but please call Childline for their advice an support. Having worked for them I know how good they are. xxx

My DD's F walked out on us when she was 4 so she had the benefit of knowing a good F until he "let her down", long story short, we hit financial problems, his answer, just walk away.

I never "bad mouthed" him to DD but she never forgave him. She did have some contact with him but was never "taken in" by him. She attended his Funeral out of duty not love.

My DH who I met when she was 8 was more of a Father to her, she was very close to him & was very upset when he died.

I know this is different DD knew her F. I would be very wary about your DGS meeting his F but you will cause a lot of resentment if you don't facilitate contact. Your DGS will make his own mind up about his F. Childline sounds like that may be a good agency to approach, hopefully they will have some good advice

Thanks polskasue. I completely forgot about Childline! I think I might suggest GS contact them when he is feeling bad.

GS was bullied at school last year but never told me what it was about. He has just told me that one of his 'friends' had found out about his absent father and was making fun of him about it. DGS took it very hard and said he felt like killing himself. Now that he has gone to another school, he is worried about the same thing happening. Poor lad!

It is a very difficult situation. I don't suppose any of us, in the circumstances described, would be keen on encouraging a renewal of this relationship (what little there was of it).

Having said that, trying to stop the boy from seeing his father would, I think, only make him more determined to do so - and perhaps more inclined to believe the stories that his father has been peddling re being kept away from his son.

I'm not really sure how this can be dealt with. I suppose it might be acceptable to tell the boy that his father had been very unreliable in the past and, although people can change, while hoping for the best, he must also be prepared for disappointment.

However, I'm no expert on matters of this nature and I guess not many of us on here are. If there are, as Iam64 suggests there might be, organisations who can assist in giving guidance as to how to deal sensitively with this situation, then I think that would be useful.

What a predicament! I certainly think that some specialised advice from one of the charities is the best first step. Stopping the boy from trying to meet his father will only make things worse, I think.
Strangely, my adopted daughter has never had the least inclination to meet her birth parents. They were both 17, and engaged when she was born. We know that their families refused to help them, and that they were forced to give her up for adoption. Attitudes were a lot different in the 60's.
Since we adopted her it has grieved me to think of her parents' loss. Did they go on to marry, and have more children? I'm sure that they have never forgotten her, as we were told that they were heart-broken at losing her.
It bothers me that they may have been waiting for 50+ years, hoping that she will contact them, but she has been adamant that she is not interested in finding them. I have carefully explained to her what things were like for unmarried mothers in those days, but she just says that we are her parents, and all that she needs.
It's good to know that she feels that we have given her all the love she needs, but oh, how sad I feel for her birth parents, and how happy I would be to reunite them.

but I really feel DGS needs to have some idea of the manipulative nature of his father.

If he is manipulative, you doing that is exactly what he will use to turn him against you. Please be smart.

If you are neutral and welcoming you can orchestrate meetings to be arranged at your DDs home or at a neutral place with DD aware & present.

However, if you continue to put "your side" across like this there is a high chance (in an effort to allow his dad to freely speak "his side") that your DGS will skip school and go off to a meeting god knows where