Bittersweet first Grandchild

Nanoftwo, do please tell us why you voted to leave, together with what the advantage are of leaving the EU, and how they outweigh the disadvantage.

Also, don’t you notice the increased intolerance and xenophobia in the UK since the referendum? Seriously?

No one has a perfect life. No politician or prime minister is perfect or will be completely honest all of the time. If they did tell the truth, none of them would get elected. Jeremy Corbyn isn't our saviour neither is Boris Johnson. As the saying goes, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Those who are angry, afraid or upset that we are leaving the EU I am genuinely concerned about how you are going to move forward. Life is tough, life can be $#it. Its how you deal with problems that matter. You can either deal with and come at a problem in a positive way or in a negative, doom and gloom way. The results and how you feel about life and your own mental well-being will differ greatly.

My son has lived in Canada for almost 20 years. Keeping in touch is far easier now than it was when he first went out there.
We skype once a week, email or whatsapp. My grand daughter is almost 3 and knows who I am and she looks forward to our Skype calls. I don't feel I miss out on their life out there by not seeing them regularly.

It is very expensive to post things to Canada. I mostly use Amazon Canada and post directly to them. This works well, though Amazon Canada doesn't offer as much choice as the UK one.

You will be able to look forward to some lovely holidays out there, it is a beautiful place. My son and his family come back to the UK about once a year, and I do the same going the other way.

Stella 14 Thank you for asking why I voted to leave. One of my parents comes from one of the newest members of the EU. The country has been invaded many times and the people are truly a mixture of the world. The people and country are known for their inherent happiness, tolerance and hospitality. The country and people were as near perfect as one could wish for. Since joining the EU, the country is awash with money, corruption, murder and greed. The people who were once welcoming are now becoming racist and all that matters to them is how much money they can earn and squeeze out of the EU. The EU and the EU alone has been the ruin of this country and people. The money, our money that is being wasted and put in the pockets of criminals is unbelievable. And this is just one EU member. That is why I voted to leave. We are paying a very high price, and I'm not talking about money, to be a member of this corrupt, self-serving institution.

Stella14 - please now be so kind as to tell me why you voted Remain.

I view the EU as a massive protection racket.

Dee1012, Absolutely! I am also originally from the North West, now living in the North East. I see railman lives in the North East too. I hadn’t realised there were lots of us!

Nanoftwo. All of the issues you site can, to a good extent, be dealt with by EU legislation. I am not suggesting that the EU is perfect (what is?), but IMO, the benefits of being a member, far outweigh the disadvantages of leaving. As to why I voted remain, it’s as follows. The EU was set up as an arrangement to protect again Wars between, what are now, EU states (successfully), it gives us a large and powerful trading block, when trading with China, and soon, the USA. Human Rights and Worker Rights are protected under the EU law that we had a strong role in establishing. A couple of nasty Tory Ministers, with shares in big business have already made statements announcing their joy that Britain can be free of such laws. Dominic Raab, then Brexit Secretary said he wanted British companies to be able to sack workers at short notice, giving no reason. When we go that alone, we will be minnows facing a whale! The UK, especially the North (the parts that Westminster forget) have hugely benefitted from EU funding over many years. One instance of that comes from the OP’s account of her son’s and daughter-in-law’s loss of funding for their work. Then of course there are the advantages of free movement (you have raised an example of disadvantage which should be dealt with without leaving), free, easily obtained health care for British people travelling in EU states. There is so much, but I think I have given you enough to illustrate why I voted remain.

Divide and conquer is what the EU are wanting. People who voted Leave or Remain were/are experiancing different lifestyles and challenges. All the while we are divided we are weakened giving the EU opportunities to weaken Great Britain. The End.

Don't know what computer/phone you use Dilly but our family are all Apple and both DDs have a photo/video stream on iPhoto which can be shared with any other family who have iPhoto. They put lots of pictures/videos on the stream and you get a notification when there is a new one. We do a lot of childcare for both but still enjoy the photos. Other family members live in Australia and Aberdeen and they too are kept up to date. In Australia there is something called Tinybean which is similar I think.

Young people whose companies relocate abroad could move to onshore companies. They have chosen to leave their families to pursue lives abroad. It is a choice freely made and, even without a referendum and their Brexit decision, many young people move abroad to take advantage of their home sponsored education and native English language to increase their income and expand their opportunities.

The global citizen of anywhere is not tied by loyalty to family or country but by a need and desire for betterment. I know of many such, children of friends who moved for advancement before 2016.

I need to leave this thread to be able to enjoy Christmas with my family as it maybe the last time we are all under the same roof unless someone dies or gets married for reasons already discussed.

However there is always a little niggle that keeps us going and this is it, hopefully for the last time this year.
Nanoftwo: when you say the EU are wanting to Divide and conquer . I challenge you with this statement because I think you are confusing this idealism with what has just happened us in the GE.

This is exactly what BJ and the con party (new name for Conservative or Tories) has done. They have deliberately divided the country into two. By telling the North they are worst off then the South. Letting everyone believe that we in the South are having a great time and living the life of those riches people in the country (namely like BJ, TM, DC etc.) but we are not, we have the same problems as you in the North., with food banks, life on benefits, child poverty etc. Yes, even in London including my son, wife and child who live in one room bedsit in London working 12 hours a week.

The cons(Tory party) sadly have split us in two. Letting those who feel they are more deprived then the rest of the country to believe they have been left behind, whilst at the same time we in South are led to believe we must work harder to get on the property ladder.
The truth is none of us can do more because we are exhausted. Therefore we are all led to believe that in this country somehow we have failed. The truth of matter is that the country has failed us. The Tory government has failed us.

So we now we believe this country is made up of two halves; the halve not's (brexiteers) and those that have too much( the remainers) This enabled the(cons) Tories to divide us and conquer, leading us all trust that the cons(Tory) party is the heroes and saviours of England, BUT, not Scotland, Ireland or Wales ( they have been left to sink or swim) and certainly not the UK.
The sad truth is we have lost our country, democracy and maybe even our liberty just like in Germany when Hitler won the 1932 election against all odds and look at that result.

The sad truth is we were all in the same boat, The south
( where I live) we are all working on zero contracts and on benefits, just like you in the north , there are no real jobs anymore.
Existing is not living we all know that, so we blame everyone but those that created this mess and certainly those who do not live on benefits. We all know this because the NHS throughout the country is witness to it. The NHS, treasured by everyone in the country is a casualty as what has been happening to our country over the last ten years of cons(Tory ) government. Whether it will be still be here in ten years from now is debatable. We were just led to believe that some people were better off then ourselves and we all fell for it. Nothing to do with the EU we have only ourselves to blame or have we just been conned by the biggest liar in the country? Only time will tell.

Please have a Good Christmas with all your friends and family, Life goes on and we must all stay calm and carry on.
Merry Christmas.

Nanoftwo, you talk as if the EU were our enemies. We are a part of it. We built it with them. I have never read such rubbish!

Well said Freja. I have become weary of making you points and other related points. It all seems to be about winning and losing (the referendum) to Brexiters. The ones I have spoken to don’t even listen to opposing views. They just glaze over and parrot leave slogans like “we’re getting our country back” (to what exactly), “leave means leave” (not much thought in that) etc!

I sadly see many similarities in the political atmosphere between UK and US now - xenophobia, "get back our country- aka make US great again, etc"

It's not a good thing

Dilly, hope you’re still reading. So sorry you feel bad, but I’d like to try and console you if I can. Brexit will remove an expensive, wasteful layer of bureaucracy. Potentially, there could be more money for grant holders, not less, assuming the government keeps the same budget for the Arts and Sciences. I think some people have knee jerked reacted, where they should just be waiting for the storm to pass. It could be the excuse they were looking for to leave anyway, and they shouldn’t be blaming you. Brexit has become a scapegoat, the reason people give, for doing what they do.

Endless life. Is Brexit a scapegoat, or can some people just see the writing on the wall, whilst others can’t?

endlessstrife posts " Brexit will remove an expensive, wasteful layer of bureaucracy"

This is the exact opposite of the truth. We currently, as EU members enjoy frictionless trade which brexit will make impossible, and so introduce a huge mushrooming of form-filling asnd bureaucracy of every kind.

Varian
I agree.

Plus more burocracy to remove any EU regulation and make new laws, communicate them and enforce them.

Bureaucracy sorry