Disappointed in son

"The girlfriend ... does everything in her power to stop any relationship."
If true then your son has made a poor choice and now made a baby with her is stuck with her. But his choice. It's down to him now. Or maybe his choice is to prefer her family...
I would wait until the baby arrives and your son becomes a dad. He'll see things differently. Then would be a time to talk with him about your place in his future.

Maybe they prefer her family.

Instead of placing blame and insulting them. Look inwards.

Because isolating with a newborn during a pandemic is a wonderful idea. And the only response to that should've been support.

For those who are still expressing shock at the OP expressing the desire to be "at the birth" she has now clarified her comment in her second post upthread where she says I have to say that I have never expected or wanted to be at the birth. That is for the parents...

So it might have been badly worded but it seems sensible to assume that she either meant at the hospital or visiting just afterwards. So she really doesn't need any more exhortations about her supposed expectation to be present during the birth!

KazzaSJ your son is making choices based on the wishes of his girlfriend. It is hard for you because of the obvious impact on your relationship. Of course relationships change between adult children and their parents as they make their own new family units but it is hard for you when that feels at the expense of some level of contact between you, your son, his family and the coming new baby, especially for at least some family events/celebrations, perhaps not all now that he has other commitments. I think that Smileless is right when she says:

I understand why you are worried about not being a part of his and your GC's life but there's little you can do I'm afraid. Keep in touch with him, keeping the conversation and/or messages light always remembering to ask after his wife's health and the baby's too.

CafeAuLait

Maybe your son never cared much for those family gatherings, so isn't bothered with them now that he's grown and starting his own family?

"It is a fight to get him to attend at any family celebration"
Don't do this. Issue the invitation then leave it to him.

Maybe it's a Covid thing and they are avoiding the gatherings for related reasons? Their choice.

Time to realise your son and his family is not an extension of you and step back before you damage the relationship too far.

I agree.
It is sad for us when a son or daughter who used to be quite different, change once married ( think Prince Harry!) but it is what it is and things may improve as time goes on.
Give him some space for now and see what happens.
I do understand your concerns though.
I was at the birth when our daughter had a baby, but not when our DIL had children, which was quite normal I think.
Don’t overthink things.

OP you obviously don't like your son's partner, so it's hardly surprising that she's not too keen on you.
i don't understand your point about the baby clothes.
surely you didn't expect that they would not buy any themselves ?
you do sound possessive of your son. maybe he's glad to have a reason not to attend family events.
i don't know. but problems with MILs are the biggest category of marital disharmony on MN, where DILs are advised to begin as they mean to go on, and not let MILs control their family life. to assert their boundaries.
strong fences make good neighbours/in laws.

Great to see you again KazzaSJ. Here we are all talking about you and you weren't replying but now you are.
I don't think you have a very different relationship with your DS & his DGF than many others.
Girls do tend to look to their own mothers when they have a baby. Didn't you?
All I want to add is that we all change over time and he and she may well come to you for advice in the future. Stay calm and don't push.
You do seem easily offended. Don't be.
I gave my DC baby clothes and things I had made and I don't think they even opened the box! Now I ask before I pile gifts on them.
Just look forward to the safe arrival of the wee babe.

Some Hospitals are still not allowing partners to be present at birth but why on earth would you want to put your daughter in law through that it’s actually pretty sadistic to be honest the girl has enough on her plate without seeing your face in the birthing room !!

Since his girlfriend has been on the scene she has done her utmost to exclude us whilst her family are always invited.

The thing is OP, (and this is probably quite hard to hear or think, which is probably why your putting the blame on his girlfriend) but, your son could stop all of this. He could insist on having a closer relationship with you, insist on you seeing the grandchild (my DH would not put up with me pushing his family out) and he could attend family gatherings. And if she didn’t like it, and he really wanted to choose your side, then he could leave. But he’s not, so suggesting that she’s responsible isn’t fair.

Your son has made the choice to behave this way, I would try to have one honest and open conversation with him and then not keep pushing it. It will hurt but I think either way the situation is going to hurt you.

I don’t want to be at the birth, who on earth would expect to be as I say but would like to be just involved a little more and be able to see my grandson.

Kazza glad you came back

Just try and be patient. Respect their decisions and things will get easier

Have they said you wont see your grandson? I know you mentioned they were having a period of isolation both before and after birth, which is understandable in current times.

Thank you VioletSky, I think you are right to be patient and hopefully things will get better.

Of course you would like to be involved a little more Kazza what excited soon to be a GM wouldn't want to be.

See how things go for now and if you continue to have concerns a talk with your son may be the way forward. Of course you don't want or expect your wishes to take precedence but you're entitled to talk about what's bothering you.

If you'd read the entire thread Bussy you'd have seen that the OP doesn't want too or expects to be present at the birth of her GC.

I bet the son has limited contact - simply because of his Mum's unreasonable behaviour and expectations. They're guaranteed to drive him away.

If she nags him to visit his brother and attend family celebrations (out of duty?) - and shows dislike of his partner - what incentive does he have to keep up regular contact? Of course, he will side with his girlfriend.

I bet the son has limited contact - simply because of his Mum's unreasonable behaviour and expectations. They're guaranteed to drive him away. If she nags him to visit his brother and attend family celebrations (out of duty?) - and shows dislike of his partner - what incentive does he have to keep up regular contact? Of course, he will side with his girlfriend.

Hetty have you forgotten that the OP Kazza is on the thread and still posting? Why on earth are you making such comments about her rather than TO her! And why comment if you can't make any helpful suggestions or give constructive criticism as a critical friend?

now has said that they will both be isolating from September to the birth and now Christmas (which has always been a big celebration) is a no go as they will be isolating for 6 weeks after the birth on the advice of the RCM which I know is not true

Do you not see how completely unreasonable you were here.

Many expectant mothers lie for an easier life. I lied about hospital visiting times because MIL would not bugger off.

There is a pandemic. Why are you not automatically expecting them to go above and beyond to protect their new born with no immune system?

Thank you all for your comments and to Madgran77 which are appreciated, all I wanted was helpful suggestions - I know I am NOT unreasonable or have expectations that drive him away (Hetty58). And who said anything about nagging. And where does it even mention nagging to see his brother. You are reading things that are definitely not there. Definitely needed constructive criticism not those sort of comments, which had not even been mentioned
I love my sons and want the best for them, for many years I have not nagged or been overbearing I only wanted some suggestions on how to deal with a fragile situation. That post from hetty58 reads more into a simple question.

OP

"my son has also not involved himself with the family and only involves himself with her family, including grandparents and sister but totally ignores his own family and brother, who has moved house and he has never stepped foot in his new house since he moved over a year ago."

Your last update clearly contradicts his behaviour

Your son chooses his own behaviour. He chooses not to interact with you.

I only wanted some suggestions on how to deal with a fragile situation

I hope that you find the suggestions that have been made helpful Kazza! And that you can think about the perspectives presented about the choices people are making in this situation and decide a way forward in this delicate situation.

The baby isn't due for another 3 months and there's already expectations being put in place and resentment brewing about not being involved in a baby's life who isn't even here yet.
That's one way to worry the poor couple.

Slow down OP.

Lower your expectations to meet theirs. Follow their lead, be helpful to them, follow their rules.
It will pay off in the end.
Don't fight them on this because you will lose.

Your son is husband and father first now.

Great post yesterday @ 22.08 Madgran.

Unfortunately Kazza there are always responses that embellish the OP in pursuit of the poster's personal agenda. As Madgran has posted, this is a delicate situation and will require a spirit of co operation and understanding from all everyone for a solution to be found.

"Your son is husband and father first now" that's as maybe March but he is also a son, and being a husband and expectant father does not mean that he should not continue ti have the relationship he once had with his family.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and I do wonder how much attitudes like 'a son's a son until he gets a wife'(a pet hate of mine), and this idea that as a husband and father demonstrating the importance of his own family in his life, at the expense of parents, siblings and extended family, contributes to estrangement and low contact which appears to be becoming more prevalent.

Well said Smileless 2012.

No matter the circumstances, a son is your son or a daughter is your daughter and a family is a family.

Kazza The Covid business has been difficult for everyone and many expectant mums have been very anxious and needing the support of their loved ones even more than usual. They also have the ongoing worry of whether their relatives might be at risk as winter looms closer. So I think it's natural they will want to feel they are in a safe, familiar nest as the birth draws closer. Our first grandchild was born last October. In the preceding months our son was rarely in contact with us or his brother as he struggled to cope with his job, supporting our DiL and the emotional adjustment to becoming a dad for the first time. Once the baby arrived he started sending us photos on WhatsApp and we did manage to see the new family for a couple of hours about 2 weeks after the birth which had been pretty traumatic for them both. I'm sure your son will want to tell his mum the good news when baby arrives and hopefully he'll start sending photos too. I would just say you might have to wait longer than you'd like before you feel welcome as a visitor. DS and DiL were in a state of complete exhaustion for weeks until the baby decided she would stop staying awake for most of the night!
It sounds to me as if your son's partner has been listening to lots of advice and probably scare stories from other new mums and is thinking ahead as to what will work best for her when the time comes. Her maternal instincts will be making her very self centred and inward looking as the time gets closer.
Sorry, I've waffled on for ages ( had a sleepless night myself). If you're still there I'd just say please try to relax about it all. There will be more emotional up and downs to come but I'm sure it'll all work out fine. Good luck to you all

Thank you Nell8, I have to take a step back and relax. I am sure DS will change when baby is born. I am sure his GF has been listening to many scare stories which is worrying for her and with the pandemic scares understandable and they have to think of their own health and that of the newborn.
I will leave it for now but I will speak to DS and explain why I feel as I do. Obviously if he insists on excluding himself and family there is nothing I can do about it. I always thought having a first GC was supposed to be exciting, but we shall see.

I think I agree with what March is saying there.

We raise our children to be autonomous adults and when we have achieved that we take a step back and allow them to make their own decisions and choices, take what they have learned from us or do things their own way or what is most ususal, a mixture of both.

Their spouses and children will always come first, that is the duty and responsibility we taught them growing up when we put our spouses and children first.

Having good relationships with wider family is wanted and wonderful but everyone involved has to work for it. In most families methods, society, opinions and understanding never stops changing and nothing we know about anything is ever a fixed point.