Disappointed in son

Kazza I’m wondering how often you are actually seeing and speaking to your son. You say he has pulled away and you don’t see him, but you’ve given examples of times you have seen or spoken to him such as when you gave them baby clothes. Also if you never speak to him, how would you know how much time he is spending with his girlfriends family?

I understand that you are upset at the change, and the level of involvement isn’t what you want. But I have to tell you that in my experience, the more a MIL pushes and complains and is jealous of the other family, the more the young family will pull away. And that is the opposite of what you want. So my advice is that if your going to have a talk with your son and DIL, it should not be centered around your wants and demands. It should be an apology for your putting unreasonable demands on the couple. Otherwise they will pull back more. I’m sure this isn’t what you want to hear, but the things you have written remind me so much of my own MIL when I was expecting my first baby. She also insisted on being at the birth, complained of the time we spent with my side of the family, was angry if she saw a photo of my baby if she wasn’t wearing the clothes she bought my baby, and was angry when we chose not to attend a family event. After 10 years of trying to manage her expectations and our own needs, we pulled away more and more, and now we have not seen her in over 3 years. I’m afraid if you continue on this way, you could be heading for estrangement too.

I have always kept my in-laws at arms
Length. We visit. But we don’t go nearly as often as they would like.

Factors that caused me to pull away:

Mil being overbearing
Mil using guilt to manipulate my husband into doing what she wanted him to do
Mil offering unsolicited advice and throwing a fit when I didn’t follow it
Sil being rude, entitled and saying and doing inappropriate things

Examine the family dynamics carefully. Look for any area where a wrong turn may have been taken. My in-laws never looked for the wrong turn and my husband never spoke up. So it brings us to our current state of affairs and a very cold and distant relationship.

*might be as much his will as hers. Sorry for that typo.

I’m confused. You made specific reference to not “even” being “allowed at the birth,” but then said you never had expectation of being there. Which is it?

I’m sending a lot of anxiety and sadness, and I’m very sorry you’re going through this.

At the same time, despite clarifications, I’m getting a lot of jealousy, possessiveness and entitlement.

Expecting everything to be the same on both sides just isn’t realistic. People are different. Families are different. Your son’s girlfriend is the one giving birth; it’s expected and natural that she feels more comfortable with her own mother.

Have you asked your son if there are circumstances or personality differences that make them more willing to be around her family at this time? Is there a difference their their style of social distancing or vaccinations? I know you’re blaming it all on her, but your son does have a voice. This might be as much will as hers, as much as you may not want to hear that.

I am writing from the US, but can tell you that limiting social contact in the weeks before delivery and first two months after delivery is very common and strongly encouraged here. If either of the couple tests positive at the time of delivery, they risk not having their partner present and potentially being separated from their newborn after delivery. Covid is dangerous for newborns. These risks are very really and terrifying. Please don’t discount them because of what you want. They are the parents here and she is the one carrying and delivering a baby.

leeds22

I wouldn't have wanted my mother at the birth, let alone a mother-in-law.

I had a home delivery for one of mine, my mother was in the house looking after my older child. When the midwife arrived I told her there was one thing that was not negotiable, my mother was not allowed in the bedroom and if she came in I was leaving. Fortunately the midwife believed me and when my mother tried to come in she was firmly told she had to leave.

Kazza, you wrote "a family is a family". But there are many different sort of happy families.

Some happy families don't expect or want any family gatherings. Other happy families tolerate a few small family gatherings. Other happy families are happy not to see very much of their relations at all. Other happy families are happiest when they have large family gatherings.

Perhaps your son would tell you what sort of family gatherings he wants. Let's hope he and his wife agree what sort of family they want!

It is unusual here in the UK to expect to be involved in the birth of the child of a relation, except for the spouse or next of kin.

It is usual in this country for the man in a marriage
to permit his wife 's relations to be more important to the couple than his own relations.

For the safety of your relationship with your son you should relax your expectations from him and your daughter in law.

Perhaps he’s stopped phoning because it always ends in one of these fights? From the tone of OP’s posts I wouldn’t be surprised if each phone call was one long rant.

This stuck out for me:

It is a fight to get him to attend at any family celebration and now snubs celebrations that have always been in the family.

Why is it a fight? If he can’t attend, that should be the end of the conversation.

Bibbity

You can not compare the boy he was to the man he is.

He may have been fully involved in his family life before.

Now he has other options. We evolve and change. Maybe some people need to realise that and adapt or they will find themselves cut off.

This is what it comes down to, really.

People grow. It’s a natural part of life. People change, their circumstances change and in turn, relationship dynamics change.

It is not up to the son to meet his mother’s expectations, it never was.

It is unrealistic to think that when our children have families of their own, that things will remain the same. Entirely unrealistic.

You can not compare the boy he was to the man he is.

He may have been fully involved in his family life before.

Now he has other options. We evolve and change. Maybe some people need to realise that and adapt or they will find themselves cut off.

I wouldn't have wanted my mother at the birth, let alone a mother-in-law.

I think the difference here Smileless, is that you are...quite rightly...very sensitive in these sort of scenarios. The OP, I think, wrote the first post exactly as she meant it. It’s only because she was disagreed with at such a high level, she changed her mind. It’s the classic turning something into a ‘ joke’, because what you said wasn’t well received.

I have always respected the way you conduct yourself, and how you manage to articulate how you feel, without resorting to the obvious need to be in charge, which I think this poster has done.

She may not have meant the things she said. If it was one statement, I could understand it, but it was the whole post.

You have never come across this way, and feel your situation is not of your making. However, Kazza, is setting herself up for estrangement completely of her making, unless this thread really has changed her mind. I do hope so.

I agree CafeAuLait that it isn't a wife's responsibility to ensure her husband 'phones his mum. Not sure why you felt it necessary to use the word "mommy" which I always find rather condescending when we're discussing men as opposed to boys.

I am merely putting forward another factor worthy of consideration to counteract the numerous posts blaming the OP.

Everything you have mentioned is of course worthy of consideration as is the change in Kazza's son since he married.

I think we all change at different parts of our life. I feel there is more going on here than in the surface. Smileless, I don't think you are considering multiple possible scenarios here that have nothing to do with the DIL.

I think it is significant that OP mentioned having to fight him to get him to come to family gatherings. Maybe he was never into them? Maybe he used to give in to the fighting but no longer does? Maybe it's just not his style of gathering and DIL's family's is? Maybe OP has bigger gatherings and DIL's parents have smaller gatherings and he doesn't like crowds (or vice versa)? Maybe he grew up seeing the social maintenance role being carried by his mother and sees it as a woman's thing to take care of but DIL has the more common recent view that they should each communicate with their own families? Maybe DIL or DS are more Covid afraid than OP and the coming baby has made them more reclusive because of this? There are so many possible explanations. Each of these I've suggested are situational and don't blame OP.

I do understand why OP is upset but sometimes considering other explanations and reframing the situation can be helpful. It might help OP to understand it's not personal. It still can hurt terribly, of course.

Smileless2012

You don't have to have physical contact to feel and be close but you do need communication. Kazza's doesn't even have that "He used to ring but even his calls have stopped".

When that happened to my MIL it was because I had stopped reminding him to call his mother. Before that, the only time he called was when I suggested it to him. Still DH's responsibility because it's not really my job to make sure he calls Mommy.

You don't have to have physical contact to feel and be close but you do need communication. Kazza's doesn't even have that "He used to ring but even his calls have stopped".

Why is the fact that Kazza is upset about feeling cut out of
her son's life being used against her? Why is her natural desire to be a part of her GC's life being used against her? Why is her fear that she is being and will continue to be excluded being used against her?

He appears to have changed. He no longer wants to be a part of his own family's gatherings but is happy to be a part of his wife's. He no longer 'phones his mum, adding to her sense of being disconnected.

Taking into consideration in this particular situation that Kazza's son has changed since becoming a husband and now expectant father, isn't blaming him or his wife. It is IMO an important factor worthy of consideration.

It seems to me, that those who do not see this potentially important factor are the ones who appear to be hell bent on blaming the OP.

That is full of errors, having a bad head day but I hope it made sense

When it comes to coronavirus some families have followed the rules to the letter and some have continued to meet up against laws/guidelines etc

I won't get into my opinions about that.

However I think even with things relaxing the threat is far from gone, so we have to respect peoples choices to keep themselves and especially pregnant women and newborns safe.

It not helpful or positive to be upset or angry with our own family members for just wanting to be safe. Doesn't matter if we feel safe or think it is safe, or think that family hold trump risk. Their wishes need to be respected.

There are other ways to keep in contact. Photos of the house? A video call with a tour?

The same can of course be done for keeping in close contact with family and vulnerable newborns. My Dad lives abroad and video contact works well for us. We still have a close bond despite distance. I ont need to breathe the same air or touch him to feel loved.

I don't disagree with that. But why is it putting the son in a bad light?
Why is it something being used against him!l? It's a non issue. He is clearly living his life. He is happy not to meet the demands they are trying to impose.

He isn't interested in their gatherings. He is interested in his unborn child's safety. Which appears to have ruffled a few feathers.
So why you talk of blame I am struggling to see anything wrong that him or DIL have actually done. Not on of the things OP said was bad on their part.

Oh for goodness sake Bibbity our bodies go through numerous changes a we grow but becoming an adult, male of female, doesn't mean that we lose the ability to be upset.

If you'd taken the time to read my last post properly, you'd have seen that I said that it maybe Kazza's son who is upset that his brother hasn't visited, and with that in mind where has she said she has been affected by it?

If her son is upset that his brother hasn't visited his new home, that will affect Kazza wont it. I get upset if my DS is upset, doesn't knowing that one of your AC is upset, upset you?

Why does it matter if the brother is upset about it?

The son is a grown man. If he has not real urge to see his brothers house then why is the Op affected by that?

"I think blaming the DIL is absolutely ridiculous". I am not blaming the d.i.l. Bibbity I am simply putting forward the possibility that she has a part to play in this.

Putting all the blame on Kazza is also ridiculous and that's what I mean about some posters having an agenda freedomfromthepast. Time and time again we see responses to parents and GP's where the responsibility for any problems is never the fault of their AC and/or AC's partner.

Some of the responses here are horrible. Kazza obviously worded her OP badly but because she's now stated that she doesn't want to be at the birth, you Bluebell are accusing her of "back tracking" to save face.

Kazza doesn't want to be present at the birth of her GC fairyplump how many times does that need to be stated?

Why wouldn't it be important Hithere? For all we know the OP has mentioned her son not visiting his brother's new home because his brother is upset about it. Obvious and unexpected changes in an AC's behaviour can be very concerning to all family members.

I hope that you'll be able to have a talk with your son and d.i.l. before the baby arrives Kazza and that you'll be able to embrace and enjoy your new role as a GM as they'll embrace and enjoy their new role as parents.

Also, why is it so important for your son to visit the new home of his brother?