Granddaughter, WOKE, Gender Neutral etc

I thought that was a great comment too...

That's a nice, calm perspective Dinahmo.

Some of the distance will as you've said, be due to normal teenage detachment, the stage where adolescents begin to become independent. If a close bond with family has already been made, it'll come back later, after they've developed themselves as an individual.

If family don't accept who they are/are becoming, possibly that will lead to a less close relationship as they become an adult. We can't push what we want onto our children/grandchildren. They are their own people.

As a child I loved my Grandmother and in fact she was responsible for introducing me to many of the things that I still like to do today. However, when I reached my teenage years I became irritated with all the fussing over me that I had previously enjoyed.

When I moved to London, age 19, I used to visit my GPs after work. I would watch the evening news with my GF but Nana would keep coming in and asking me whether I wanted a drink. I got fed up with this.

One friend with numerous grandchildren used to tell me how as soon as they got to their teens they didn't want to visit her, they'd rather be out with their friends. They would visit if she cooked a Sunday lunch but she could not afford to do that regularly. She was philosophical about it.

Think back to your own relationships with GPs and parents. At some time during my early teens I realised that my parents were fallible and as I grew older we often had arguments over what I could and couldn't do. By the time I got to my mid twenties we got on very well but sadly I lost them both in their early fifties - my dad through cancer and my mum through early onset Alzheimers. Although she lived for some years it was never the same.

We all know that as children develop they go through many changes, some of which can be disruptive or upsetting. I think it's important that, as a GP, one steps back, doesn't interfere or be too opinionated with them but is quietly supportive. Most of us gain a degree of wisdom as we get older and your relationship with them will change yet again.

That has nothing to do with OPs grandchild * FarNorth*

Everyone needs boundaries

Healthy ones

Children do need boundaries, not to feel that everything is their responsibility.
Boundaries can be discussed and tested but shouldn't be done away with altogether.

There are many detransitioned young people who now have unwelcome alterations to their body and health.
Some of them will look back and think "Why did adults behave as if all was fine?"

*
Obviously, the suggestion was a new pronoun for everyone to make life simpler for all.

Not treating children like their own individual selves who have thoughts, feelings and needs that deserve as much respect as anyone else is the fastest way to estrangement one day.

Like most words 'she' and 'he' have meanings.
Claiming that the meanings are irrelevant is foolish.
I'd be happier to use a completely new word as a pronoun for someone who is exploring their identity, than one giving the impression that they are the opposite sex.

In fact, that was suggested by feminists in the 70s but of course it was ignored while the idea of changing words like chairman & fireman had the public in a state of shock.

imaround

You do not get to police my post. If the OPs grandchild wants to be called he, I will support that. Your opinion is of no importance to me.

People comment on others' posts all the time.
It's a forum.

eazybee

^........the gender critical would go so far as suggesting alienating a grandchild by refusing to use their preferred pronoun is desirable or even acceptable^.
The person referred to is a fourteen year old girl therefore however much she may choose to posture she remains a she.
How about considering the expectation that a grandmother should be dictated to by a child in an area about which the child knows very little.
Manners? Respect for elders?

Why? Because external people say so?

HE has chosen a new pronoun. He might want to go back to she later. Fine! He might want to stay a he. Also fine.

The grandmother wants a closer relationship with the child. Not being supportive will push the child even further away.

Respect is a two way street.

FarNorth

I was commenting on the use of 'he' in a post here. There is no need for anyone posting on GN to use the wrong pronoun for a child

In a child's actual life, the change in pronoun use, by others, encourages the idea that they really are the sex opposite to their real one.
That is not a useful thing to do.

It's likely, tho, that the OP will be able to avoid using pronouns about the child in her hearing.
A changed name is less problematic, in my opinion, as names are not tied to a specific sex.

VS what conspiracy theory do you mean? I haven't heard of one.

I disagree FarNorth, using the pronoun they are identifying as is a mark of respect. Keep calling someone questioning their gender as the gender they are distancing themself from is disrespectful and rude and will alienate them from their family.

I just don't get this gender critical hysteria. We're talking about a teenager that wants to be called he. So we can be respectful and call them he. It isn't the wrong pronoun. It is their pronoun of choice.

eazybee

^........the gender critical would go so far as suggesting alienating a grandchild by refusing to use their preferred pronoun is desirable or even acceptable^.
The person referred to is a fourteen year old girl therefore however much she may choose to posture she remains a she.
How about considering the expectation that a grandmother should be dictated to by a child in an area about which the child knows very little.
Manners? Respect for elders?

Respect is earned not given purely because you are old. Should we respect the views of a fascist simply because of his age?
It isn't dictating, it's a personal request. The GP can comply or not. But if they do not they risk their grandchild thinking their feelings are of little importance to the GP. From that only distance can result.

........the gender critical would go so far as suggesting alienating a grandchild by refusing to use their preferred pronoun is desirable or even acceptable.
The person referred to is a fourteen year old girl therefore however much she may choose to posture she remains a she.
How about considering the expectation that a grandmother should be dictated to by a child in an area about which the child knows very little.
Manners? Respect for elders?

I think it is so interesting that the gender critical would go so far as suggesting alienating a grandchild by refusing to use their preferred pronoun is desirable or even acceptable. I can't see how that is kind, considerate or anything but damaging to both parties involved. In fact all it seems typical of to me is dictatorial and oppressive ideas. Only those sort of regimes insist on such regulation. (Franco for example forbade the use of the Catalan name Joan for boys).

You do not get to police my post. If the OPs grandchild wants to be called he, I will support that. Your opinion is of no importance to me.

Well of course

I was commenting on the use of 'he' in a post here. There is no need for anyone posting on GN to use the wrong pronoun for a child

In a child's actual life, the change in pronoun use, by others, encourages the idea that they really are the sex opposite to their real one.
That is not a useful thing to do.

It's likely, tho, that the OP will be able to avoid using pronouns about the child in her hearing.
A changed name is less problematic, in my opinion, as names are not tied to a specific sex.

VS what conspiracy theory do you mean? I haven't heard of one.

Gender critical has gone full on conspiracy theory

FarNorth

This child is not a 'he'.

Luckily for you, no-one affirmed your new identity to the extent of encouraging you to use hormone blockers or to get surgery.

That is the danger faced by today's young people.

The OP is lamenting the loss of the relationship. But is also failing to support the GC in their questioning of their sex/gender.

Insisting on ignoring their gender crisis could possibly be part of the reason for the failure of the relationship. Being kinder and more understanding might salvage it.

Using an amended pronoun is such a small thing. It isn't encouraging anything. It is maintaining a bond and a closeness with a person who is loved. This gender critical hysteria is a bit out of control. It isn't an immediate jump from removing a single letter from a pronoun, s/he, to jabbing in hormones daily and getting surgery. Let's not catastrophize here.

When I was around 10 or 11 I had several fantasy lives in my head. In one I had a boy's name, which i think was Michael. Within months the hormones kicked in and I became a completely different person - I even played with dolls, which had always been anathama.

This child is not a 'he'.

Luckily for you, no-one affirmed your new identity to the extent of encouraging you to use hormone blockers or to get surgery.

That is the danger faced by today's young people.

When I was that age in the in the 80s I went through a stage when I wanted to be more gender neutral. I wanted a boy name. I had no idea what ot was called. I certainly wasn't learning it from school.

I think that for many teens this is a phase that is more talked about now. It makes it easier for those who do feel they were born in the wrong body to step forward and get what they need.

It is important to meet teens where they are and accept them 100%. If it a phase he will work through it.

Excellent post geekesse, think it really sums it up. My eldest daughter became frankie when she was in her teens. This was back in the 1980's and it was just accepted as one of the annoying aspects of teens. Within a couple of years that had been dropped and I was more worried about that she was using good contraception as she moved between boyfriends.

Betty, sound as if your son and DiL are very good supportive parents, follow their lead. This has nothing to do with a particular pupil arriving at the school and, most definitely is nothing being taught.

It is just part of the modern times and teens trying to sort themselves out. Please try to use the name(s) they have chosen. And as for pronouns, a lot of teens these days prefer to be referred to as they/them rather than he or she.

One of my g. children is now on their THIRD name, another on their second. Not that hard to remember what name they like, in the past many youngsters shortened their name or used their second names, not really a difficult part of loving them to use the name they prefer to be addressed by.

Do ask them if they like to be addressed as her/him or they? They will appreciate this and you will rise in their estimation.

However, at 14 years old, they are starting to detach themselves from the people who were so important during childhood, and that very much includes grand parents, however close they may have been in the past.

You should be happy that your grandchild is developing and sorting out their own personality. No idea where it will take them, wherever it is - g.parents role is just to be loving and supportive in every way.

In 1950, when I was ten, my form (all girls) was asked how many would prefer to be boys. There were only two of us who preferred to be girls. The reason given was that “boys have more fun”. I couldn’t see that at all. My brother’s school was much stricter than mine, and I generally seemed to have an easier life.. However, my main reason for preferring to be a girl was quite shallow - clothes. I thought it would be awful to be restricted to grey flannel, no colour anywhere except perhaps a tie. How boring! Never in a million years would I have wanted to identify as a boy. When my own sons were young in the 1970s there was at least some colour allowed.

Goodness knows what would have happened if it had been 2022 instead of the early 1990s - counselling and therapy probably.

That's the point geekesse. Children and young people can get locked into something they are not ready for, by being told they have discovered their true reality & encouraged in it by all around them.