Missing grandaughter so much

You don't need training to know how children can be and are impacted, common sense serves well enough for most of us thankfully.

Your son needs to get a job and support his child properly.
There is no indication that he didn't have a job and hasn't paid child support regularly until recently.

It's not right for him to take no responsibility for his daughters needs.
There is no indication that he didn't have a job and hasn't paid child support regularly until recently.

So much supposition, imagination and misandry on this thread.

VS Are you saying you'd be perfectly happy for this 5 year old child to have every observation or hypothesis you've made about her father reported to her? These for example

Your son needs to get a job and support his child properly.

It's not right for him to take no responsibility for his daughters needs.

Tells the child what? That her father doesn't take his responsibility to her seriously. Nice.

I don't have any personal experience in this one but I don't think it would change anything about how I would communicate

Maybe that's my training and knowing how that impacts children

Our decisions are influenced on a daily basis by friends, family, peer groups, what we see, read and hear. The films we watch and for those that play them, the video games they play.

We are all on this thread apart from the OP, expressing our opinions about a situation that has nothing to do with any of us because the OP said "I need help on this".

My opinions are based on my own feelings and sometimes my own experiences, just as yours are. I have no need to absolve myself of responsibility for what I have posted here. I stand by it and wouldn't suggest you are, or should absolve yourself of any responsibility for the opinions you've expressed, just because I disagree with you.

Delila

If you don’t think that applies here, in this particular context, Norah, why say it?

We all have opinions. Last I knew we could all express such.

I very much do believe what I noted does apply here, but that's my uninformed opinion. I think it's worthy of noting. May well make others think twice before they poke in where they don't belong?

Good thread for knowledge.

This is turning from a request for advice from a Grandmother who is worrying how her granddaughter is feeling, not seeing her father and Granny, into a work of fiction.

If you don’t think that applies here, in this particular context, Norah, why say it?

Interesting perspective really

You don't think others are influenced by others words at all in what they repeat themselves?

I guess that's a good way of absolving responsibility for one's own words and cathartically releasing ones own feelings against a situation that has nothing to do with us

I just don't think that way

I didn't say she OP is pushy, over-involved or entitled.

I said It seems plausible, to me, OP is too involved. I'm likely basing that on my own feelings about pushy entitled grans who want what they want for no known reason - too much of that happens to the detriment of young mums.

I stand by that. Pushy entitled GPs have no place in these type of situations, needing instead to stand at a far distance and allow parents to raise their own children without GP distraction.

Young mums are often vilified for no reason, on GN, by paternal GPs.

Why should she hear what total strangers think of her mother? It'll be a lot of years before she's on GN if it's still going of course.

Oh and least she'll also be spared from hearing what total strangers think of her father too.

Opinions about people they don't know at all

That must be an interesting way to live... alienating others before even giving them a chance

I hope this little girl never hears what total strangers think of her mother

Sad when we could all use constructive language rather than insults

VioletSky

Maybe a good way to look at it is this:

If you wouldn't say it to the child, don't say it.

If you wouldn't tell this child that their mother is "cruel" or "a bad mother" or "using her as a weapon" then don't say that to the adults involved where it might get back to the child due to being wound up to anger.

Children overhear many conversations that the parents try to hide.

If someone would say that to a child about their mother, they need lots and lots of therapy

Nobody has said that any of this should be repeated to son or GD. At any rate neither OP nor son appear to be here

Look to it this way VS, everyone is expressing their opinions, none of us know the truth to the matter, nor are depositions taken.

I feel sorry for the children too VS as they are the ones with no voice who are always caught in the middle.

But if they did you would be responsible!!!! No I wouldn't VS. I am not responsible for what anyone else says or does anymore than you are.

What a strange thing to suggest.

I feel so awful for children when so many adults think it's acceptable to behave like this

Norah, nothing about the OP’s request for help suggests to me that she’s pushy, over-involved or entitled. Let’s not embark on another session of finger-pointing based on nothing but our own prejudice.

Equally if you wouldn't say to a child "you don't get to see daddy if he doesn't pay the money on time", then don't do the action. Good point Rosie.

One that will harm the child if it is repeated by the OP to the son and by the son to the mother or anywhere the child can hear

I'm not saying OP would just to clarify... OP sounds like a good grandma

But if they did you would be responsible

I don't understand how people don't get this, this is literally how humans communicate and learn language from each other

If someone would say that to a child about their mother, they need lots and lots of therapy I really don't think any poster here would say anything like that to a chid, why on earth would you even think they might? Equally if you wouldn't say to a child "you don't get to see daddy if he doesn't pay the money on time", then don't do the action. It really does need best behaviour all round.

But no one has said that to a child about their mother as far as I'm aware. The only way what's been said on this thread could get back to this 5 year old, would be if the OP told her GD which for me is extremely unlikely.

I wouldn't say it to child and stand by having said it on this thread. It is my opinion of the mother in this case and one I am free to express.

Maybe a good way to look at it is this:

If you wouldn't say it to the child, don't say it.

If you wouldn't tell this child that their mother is "cruel" or "a bad mother" or "using her as a weapon" then don't say that to the adults involved where it might get back to the child due to being wound up to anger.

Children overhear many conversations that the parents try to hide.

If someone would say that to a child about their mother, they need lots and lots of therapy

This thread has been quite enlightening.

I'd no idea how arrangements were made for children of splitups/ divorce. Seems a bit unfair if both parents are not required to provide equally, but I'm not involved, so no further opinion is best. The notion that children are weapons /pawns is odd, just people doing what seems correct to them.

It seems plausible, to me, OP is too involved. I'm likely basing that on my own feelings about pushy entitled grans who want what they want for no known reason - too much of that happens to the detriment of young mums.

VioletSky, I know your advice is kindly meant, but we’re in no position to nudge the couple in any direction. The OP is distraught and came here for help. She knows the facts, we don’t, but she didn’t point the finger of blame at anyone.

It doesn’t help her to criticise her son, with whom she shares, together with his much-loved daughter , a “special bond”. It’s a delicate situation and it’s a pity some comments have been so harsh for no good reason.

At best GG65 what I quoted from your posts suggests that the father doesn't want to see his D and makes little or no effort to do so, which bearing in mind it is the child's mother who has stopped contact, I find baffling.

I agree that this is not an ideal situation and wonder why you're not prepared to say whether you think this mother is wrong for stopping contact.

Your post @ 12.09 is spot on Delia. There are a lot of responses saying that being unable to meet child support payments should not be used as an excuse reason to stop contact.

You just can't browbeat people with how they aren't fulfilling your exact expectations and behaving exactly as you wish and expect a good relationship to come out of it. Exactly VS and one of the worse ways to try and brow beat a parent, is to prevent them from seeing their child.