Too many "expert" theories

My first 2 DC were born in the same hospital almost 2 years apart (late 70s). The first one had to be fed by the clock, but by the time the second one arrived, it was feeding on demand. Both systems were explained in such a way that you felt that this had always been the only way and had probably had something to do with the laws of the Medes and the Persians.

I used Penelope Leach and found her book very reassuring, particularly when I had no idea which end of the first baby was up, but she still allowed for your own ideas if/when you had them.

I don't remember having a guru at all, although I may well have done and forgotten. My pregnancy book, which covered the first three months (I think) after the birth was by Miriam Stoppard.

I will have followed the advice of the time about how to put them down to sleep, but I definitely didn't have a timetable telling me how many minutes of tummy time was necessary, or 'hacks and tips' about how to fit muscle training into my schedule. My babies basically fitted around me, and I around them. If they cried I picked them up, as I didn't want them to feel abandoned, and I tried to sleep when they did (more difficult when I had more than one). I don't think they need to be trained to be babies - they do it very effectively on their own.

Swaddling is obviously a fashion, and it will pass. I don't like to see them unable to get their hands to their faces or to kick their legs, but apparently some babies find it soothing. My lovely new nephew is swaddled for sleep, and I wouldn't dream of reacting in any way, as it's not my business. I'm not a fan of fashions of thought in any area of life though - people should think for themselves - and whereas I know being a first time mum is scary and it's good to have some certainties, fashions that involve buying 'products' and conforming to schedules are not my cup of tea.

I refused to buy any baby books. In the early 1970s when many women were having their first baby around 20 I waited until I was 28 and did, as someone up thread suggested, used my common sense.

I was the only breastfeeding mother in the area I lived in - and I didn't give a toss - I reckon that world population had grown from a few to several billion, with the majority of babies being born and brought up in unsafe and unsanitary conditions so common sense and seeking help when the baby was ill, would not put his life at risk - and it didn't.

You were lucky that you were so blessed with common sense MOnica. common sense doesn’t arrive overnight, much is based on previous experience and family example.

Many young women that I visited were floundering with their first baby, overwhelmed and tired out. Hormones, tiredness and lack of support can often over ride confidence and^common sense^ anyway.
The responsibility of knowing that a new little human being’s welfare depends upon you, can be very stressful, most mothers want to do the very best for their baby, naturally looking for advice and reassurance, wherever (usually the internet these days) they can find it.

I was early 40s when I had my baby and most of those things mentioned were common knowledge except for the not sleeping in a pram thing? I rarely used a pram anyhow. I kept getting pressure to bottle feed, but I was adamant I would get breastfeeding to work. And I did - despite tongue tie, mastitis, oral thrush. We got to just shy of three years. I’d been determined to do so cos I had a hard time having a baby and I’d done a lot of research regarding both methods and from that I decided formula wasn’t for us. Although initially she was mix-fed due to the tongue tie. A lot of the guidance is to help prevent babies from dying - and it works.

My DS would only sleep on his tummy, but he always managed to wriggle up to the top of the cot or pram no matter how far down we placed him!

Farzanah childcare is a subject widely discussed in the media, in newspapers and magazines, as it was in the 1970s and as I had my chilldren very late, most of my friends had children before me and I saw their obsessive dependence on baby books, some times to the disadvantage of the baby - and I beleieve in child focussed rearing not book focussed rearing.

I did borrow someone's book to identify a rash DS came outin (it was rosacea) but that is all.

Imagine going against the experts who have done the research and then something happening to the baby which could have been prevented just because it was done differently before.

Tongue tie is quite common it seems and no worse than the Vitamin K test they do when the baby is in the early days. My daughter and my grandaughter (no Tongue tie involved) both struggled to feed. My daughter ended up in hospital for it and was put straight on to a bottle by order of the Dr. I howled for days. My boys fed easily but turned out to have lactose and soy intolerances so they ended up on a bottle too but much further down the line.
My daughter "pumped" and then fed by bottle but it was so stressful so her daughter went on to a bottle. She didn't feed much better but at least it was easier. With her second child she went straight to the bottle. It was a much more relaxed experience!

I don't remember reading books, rather just getting on with it, in the 50s. However, our 4 were all different one to another - I must have just muddled through it all.

Our daughters have mostly been the same. One, being a bit naturally stressed IMO, was upset early on, but she calmed. No books needed.

I wonder if being younger you are more likely to identify with the basic needs of the child? In other words your instinct.

I was well used to babies when growing up though, due to much older siblings having their own, and through observing them.
I definitely feel that the more I know the more I worry nowadays.
So glad I had them young. We survived. And so have the Grandchildren😉

I felt a confident mother because I left having children long enough to have had time to know about changes in fashions of child rearing over the years and seen all the problems those bringing up children by the book got into, so decided, as I said, that common sense and concentrating on the baby was the best way forward

You can be as confident as you like but surely you should know what the experts (with regard to researched backed) mortality advice are saying?

It is exactly what I had done, because I had read lots of articles in newspapers and magazines over quite a period of time, plus browsing through all my friend's baby books, so I had a good grasp of the range of opinions available. That was why i could be confident.

What I was not, was wedded to one baby book, which I clung to like a bible and followed without regard to circumstances or the child.

I only remember reading magazine articles and listening to advice from my mother and mother-in-law (both of whom were very sparing with said advice). I then decided myself whether the ideas suited me and my babies.

One of my DiLs has a PhD in psychology but is not overly theoretical in her methods. The other is a trained special needs teacher and is very strict with her girls. (She scares me sometimes!) She doesn't let anyone interfere or influence her and is doing a great job. I'm glad there are some parents of that generation still using their common sense.

Of course the grandchildren are all perfect anyway as they have my genes

There have always been ‘experts’ when it came to parenting, pregnancy, marriage. The difference is, it used to be family. Now, many parents look to doctors and scientifically based studies vs what Mom or Grandma did.

Which, imo, is reasonable. So many standards have changed, even since I had my first child. From one baby to the next, it went from NEVER put baby on their back to sleep to the back to sleep’ standards. Nursing was strongly discouraged when I was a baby, as formula was claimed to be superior. Now we know breast is best. Car seats weren’t a thing. Now, rear facing as long as possible, and children in car seats and boosters for years. Newborns on a feeding schedule, so they didn’t manipulate their parents or become spoiled vs on demand feeding and can’t spoil a baby.

As we know better, we do better. When it comes to safety issues, I’d absolutely take the information from someone who’s job it is to be current on such things vs someone who last had a baby decades ago.

I need a "like" button, M0nica.

As we know better, we do better
I like that.
I remember feeding my first born with the Penelope Leech book open on the arm of my chair. She was my expert as I had no female relatives to ask for guidance.

There will always be new data and recommendations, even though it’s hard to keep up. If we can prevent death or better support development, why wouldn’t we?

Regarding breastfeeding-
I don’t think many here grasp the full extent of pressure new mothers are facing to exclusively breastfeed. Support and encouragement are great, but many women are resting their worth as mothers in their ability and commitment to breastfeeding. It’s gone too far and I find it incredibly harmful. The pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other on this.

Nearly all the mums breastfeed here in Australia so my granddaughter, who didn’t, had to be pretty determined! When I had my first two, in the UK, it was actively discouraged for some reason,not much support but when I had the next two here in Australia there was tons of support, lots of advice and care from peer groups and professionals.

The problem with so called expert advice is that it chops and changes over the years. What’s recommended one year is frowned upon a few years later. I think newborns are a worry anyway as they’re so fragile and helpless and I think today’s first time parents must find all the expert advice anxiety inducing.

When I had my first two, in the UK, it was actively discouraged for some reason,not much support

My daughters were actively discouraged in this area even though they were both for it. The biggest concern seemed to be that the babies had to have fed a certain amount before Mum would be discharged. My daughter was struggling with an infection which the hospital knew about and yet still they were pushing her to use a bottle.

I can't work out a way to link to a specific bit of those Facebook reels, but I've just seen one that is a perfect example of what I was saying a few days ago.

A ridiculously cute baby is being put through her paces by an offscreen adult, and the voiceover is talking about 'goals' to be reached by particular ages (the baby is about 12 weeks old). One goal is 'upper body strength', which can be achieved by 'tummy time' facing a mirror, which is sold by the influencer, and structured games where you dangle something above the baby for her to reach. Another is 'eye co-ordination', which involves swinging the dangling item (also available to buy) from side to side so the baby follows it with her gaze. There are times attached for these activities. Then there's the bedtime routine, which involves feeding, burping and changing, followed by a wipedown with lotion (guess where you can get that), and swaddling in a velcro-fastened garment (ditto). The swaddle is 'transitioned' to a sleeveless version when the baby can roll over, and again, the influencer will flog you that, too.

None of that is different from what I'd think any parents do (swaddling wasn't my thing, but does seem to be the fashion). We might not have called it 'tummy time' or timed our 'structured activities', or even worked towards our 5 week old babies reaching 'goals', but it all looked very familiar. I can't see it doing any harm to the baby, but I do think it could make anxious new mums more so, and I have reservations about the sales opportunities, too. The comments show the usual competition too. 'My baby could roll over at 3 days old', 'Oh, that's nothing - mine was doing it in the delivery room, and could talk at 4 weeks', so it's an open goal for influencers.

Doodledog,

My baby could roll over at 3 days old', 'Oh, that's nothing - mine was doing it in the delivery room, and could talk at 4 weeks',
I’ve heard those, and more, even before influencers.

Why don’t men seem to be so influenced? Will the next thing be influencers convincing men that playing classical music, foreign languages or multiplication tables, on a specially bought device for their dangly bits mean their sperm will be more intelligent? Would men believe it, or care, or feel guilty for not doing it?

It will be helpful to stop taking new practices and changes as a personal affront to your child-rearing skills. Times change. Safety rules change. We learn more, we do better. Personal anecdotes don’t negate reputable studies by people who dedicate their lives to learning for the purpose of improving. All this boils down to is some women having a bruised ego at not being looked to as the “expert” themselves, as evidenced by the disingenuous “concern for the children of young mums today”. I’m sure these children will be fine compared to the generations that grew up with adults chain smoking in their presence, or the car-seatless car rides of yesterday. All generations will get some things right and some things wrong. It’s no reason to feel so threatened by change.

Will advice differ from today than in the future? Of course! Let’s just hope tomorrow’s grandmothers cope better than the ones clutching their pearls at today’s differences.

What makes you so interested in pearl necklaces lyleLyle?