A so-called “new” study into talking to babies? !

Aveline

I had a reversible push chair for my children. My sister brought it back for me from France. I used to have them facing me when very young but they liked to see where we were going as they grew older. It was simple to change the direction of the seat. It's surprising that it's not more common.

I had one for DGD in late 2010s. I knew they weren't particularly common, but I didn't realise they were really unusual. I think it was a Joie, and as it was Granny's stroller, it wasn't expensive. DGD's buggy at home could also flip.

Antonia

Phones and babies don't mix unfortunately. Maybe in the future people will realize the damage caused to children by a lack of interaction.
I am so pleased that my children were adults before smartphones were invented.
The trouble is, they are almost indispensable today.

There is a lot of research going on in this field.
Interesting piece on Woman’s Hour this morning.
Some want it made law that means no phones before 16.

FannyCornforth

🤦‍♀️
My very wise Nan said it started to go down hill with foreword facing prams and pushchairs.
She reckoned mother and baby needed to by facing each other and mother pointing out various things on their travels to the child.

Absolutely Fanny. I was going to say that!

Another thing I have noticed when I walk past somewhere like Starbucks is that all the young mums are sitting in there chatting together, and their babies and toddlers are strapped into buggies, sometimes for hours.

When my children were that age, we couldn't afford to buy coffees out, and would have a coffee morning at home for a few friends where the children could play on the floor and socialise, or in the garden and run about.

That could be a real breakthrough Aveline

Increasing myelin production would be great. Interesting if they can follow this project through to see if it leads to a reduction in number of MS cases.
As there is a higher incidence of MS in Scotland does this demonstrate that we don't talk enough to babies up here? So many avenues of research opened up! Excellent.

Yes MOnica this is the important point and could help children who maybe have some developmental problems.

I think most of us know that learning a foreign language and learning music, too, opens pathways in the brain, improves brain plasticity, so it would seem to be logical that listening to speech from newborn onwards would have the same effect.

But that is the point, with babies, it is nothing to do with increasing 'plasticity'. The cause is that talking to a baby stimulates the development of myelin, a substance that makes brain signals more efficient in language relate areas of their their brains, which is something different.

M0nica

What this research shows is the WHY talking to babies helps their mental development. It demonstrates the physical processes taking place within the babies brain as a result of being talked to. What happens is that talking to a baby stimulates the development of myelin, a substance that makes brain signals more efficient in language relate areas of their their brains.

How man of those amazed that anyone needed to research ths topic bothered to find out what this research paper was really all about? Which was the physical development of the baby's brain, or perhaps they are so erudite they already knew?

I think most of us know that learning a foreign language and learning music, too, opens pathways in the brain, improves brain plasticity, so it would seem to be logical that listening to speech from newborn onwards would have the same effect.

seadragon 'Stolen Focus' is an excellent book. Very well worth reading. I like Hari's writing on depression too.

I'm one of those boring people who sought out the research M0nica - I know my children would be eye-rolling if they knew!

It's here if anyone wants it:
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.31.493945v1.full

NB. this is the pre-print.

Myelination (the coating or covering of axons with myelin) begins around birth and is most rapid in the first 2 years but continues perhaps as late as 30 years of age.
As many of us believed all along, early years are really important.

The worrying rising trend of children starting school with limited verbal abilities was already evident well before Covid arrived on the scene. The disastrous impact of Lockdown has served to magnify the deficiency in language skills. A study by the Education Endowment Foundation covering some 50,000 pupils in 58 primary schools across England indicates that 96% of the teachers questioned were concerned about their pupils' poor speech and language development. So the shortfall in ability is not limited to infants, and is not simply a matter of parents needing to talk to their children more. Add the negative influences together, and not only does poor speech development have a negative impact on the ability to learn in school, but also has serious, longer term implications for a growing child's ability to communicate with and to relate positively to others as they are integrated.. or not.. into society. So it's a complex problem, and needs some serious attention.

What this research shows is the WHY talking to babies helps their mental development. It demonstrates the physical processes taking place within the babies brain as a result of being talked to. What happens is that talking to a baby stimulates the development of myelin, a substance that makes brain signals more efficient in language relate areas of their their brains.

How man of those amazed that anyone needed to research ths topic bothered to find out what this research paper was really all about? Which was the physical development of the baby's brain, or perhaps they are so erudite they already knew?

This is an earnest comment with a wee laugh at the end of it to keep you going hopefully...I posted a thread on Gransnet last month about a book called 'Stolen Focus' by Johann Hari and am surprised to have received no comments at all. The book is excellent and very easy to read on several of the subjects raised on this thread. It also gives on-line links to organisations who are tackling various aspects of this growing phenomenon which we can join if we want to make a difference. The section on education alone is worth reading if time is limited. I am delighted to see so many people expressing concern here about forward facing prams, and children starting schools with limited speech. At last these issues are being recognized more widely. DH and I looked after DGD for her first 3 years whilst DD returned to work and teachers often mentioned concerns about children arriving at her school with little speech/communication or even ability to use the loo... That was 2012-2015. We all chattered away to DGD and I often even sang to her in her forward facing pram which was our welcome gift to her..... However, the day came when she said, very firmly, to me: "Grandma, don't sing!" We laughed all the way to the shops....

Maybe this is needed as like others who've posted, I too often see mum or dad or both parents glued to mobile 'phones and not engaging in conversation with one another, never mind their child.

You shouldn’t sneer at such research which is showing the biological basis of behaviour more scientifically , which I’m sure not many grans actually are familiar with. It’s certainly not a waste of money or obvious , unless of course you’ve done the neurological research yourself. Yes, some people love to talk to babies in that baby language ( which also has some scientific research) but not everyone has the knowledge / ability/ inclination to do this .

Whatever the reason, we have more children starting school with limited vocabulary, inability to speak in sentences and/or speech delay, which is ridiculous when you think how many more children go to nursery or preschool.

Yes, I think that modern medical imaging of the brain is teaching us so much about baby development. I was fascinated by the television programme " The Secret Life of Babies" . Did anyone else watch this?
And certainly I can remember my MIL recommending the pram- in- the- garden routine and talking of leaving her children in a playpen ( remember them?) whilst she got on with her housework. Poor woman had a five bedroomed house to clean, coal fires to make and laundry to do by hand.

It is not the fault of mobiles as far as I can see as it's not new.
I think it's more about not understanding the importance of talking and the role this plays in infant development.
NanaDana is right.

I think the article is about the myelin, too, but people chose to home in on non-interacting mothers instead. Which also brings to mind why fathers aren’t being berated alongside mothers for not talking to their children!

I do think we can sometimes hark back to halcyon days which in fact never really existed for everyone. There have always been children raised in suboptimal conditions, sadly. I can recall neglected children from my own school days.

It is important to talk to children, though, many studies have shown this. I now have weekly contact with two of my GC and we talk all the time. It’s just natural for me, I even used to talk to our dog - ‘Look, Rover, a big red tractor!’ which earned me some funny looks from passers by. Now we no longer have our cats I’ve noticed how much quieter our house is.

I don’t think books are on the same level as screens. It’s almost impossible to get one GC to respond to you if there’s a screen around. The baby has been entranced by screens since he was weeks old, which I do find scary. Their parents strictly limit screen time because of this and also because the older child’s behaviour deteriorates if she has more than a short time watching anything.

I don't criticise young parents. I was lucky to be able to give up work when my children were born but neither my daughter nor daughter in law could do this. I also recall the criticism of my generation who apparently parked the children in front of the telly instead of playing with them. We weren't perfect either.
As for buggies, the modern pushchair is reversible. My baby grandchild faced me when she was tiny and I later turned the seat round to face away from me when she started to corkscrew herself round to see where she was going.

Thanks doodle, means a lot

I remember my mother looking at my sister and saying:
"It is great to see your kids (my sister's) are so happy and love you (mu sister) so much, you spend so much time with them despite dinner and house being a mess
Your sister and you did not have that bond with me ( with sad voice and eyes about to cry)"

My mother still didn't understand that a bond is cultivated, doesn't just happen

Reason no. 3343343 they are cut off

Oh Doodledog That was the theme of my childhood - "Children should be seen and not heard"! Goodness knows how we learned to speak at all.
There was also the "Empty vessels make the most sound" which I had to have explained to me.
Basically if you were always talking you couldn't have much going on in your head. How times change!

I agree, Hithere. And not just TVs, books or whatever. Housework, too - but that would be seen as virtuous.

My grandmother believed in children being seen and not heard - not much interaction there, unless it was to be told we were out of line, and my mother swallowed the 'fresh air and don't spoil them' line, which meant that my babyhood was largely spent in a pram at the bottom of the garden.

When mine came along (90s) my mum used to criticise me for feeding on demand and picking them up as soon as they cried ('you are making a rod for your back'), yet on the rare occasions she looked after them she always asked for videos for them to watch, so she didn't have to entertain them.

I do get tired of the constant criticism of young people. They have different lives and different challenges from our generations, but are no more or less likely to want the best for their children than any of us did. Give them a break.

My own mother, pre cell phone and TV times, thought that keeping the house immaculate and have 5 course meals ready for my father every day was more important that interacting with her very young children, we were "too much work and she didn't have time for everything"

FannyCornforth

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m another who much preferred prams and pushchairs which allowed contact between mum and baby - it must be quite frightening, as well as potentially dangerous, to be sitting in a forward-facing buggy, unable to see mum, just strangers.

Yes. And down so low. And being pushed into the road to cross it with no one beside you

Yes we were always taught to move into the road if it was clear and pull the buggy behind us not use it as a battering ram.
I hate to admit my DD's bucked the theory I had one sitting in the pram and one on a seat at the bottom both facing me. One day the one at the front was asked a question by a friend and the tiny in the back answered my friend thought she was a ventriloquist.
The older one is still the quiet one and the other a chatterbox.
I always bought friends the book "This little puffin", with all the rhymes and songs I had used at work.