ADHD, SEN and other problems in children

Cambsnan

While we all feel for the family with a child with problems I do feel all children need to feel safe I their own space. Adults would not invite someone into there home who hurts them and breaks their things.

I am in complete agreement.

While we all feel for the family with a child with problems I do feel all children need to feel safe I their own space. Adults would not invite someone into there home who hurts them and breaks their things.

Peace34

This is an odd thread

1. You say the child was not told off - how do you know? How do you know the mum did not sit with them at home and reinforce what is unacceptable or not?

2. Kids do break things. The child is 4. Whether or not she has ND is irrelevant. This happens with kids and you do not know what conversations happened at home about it.

3. Impulsivity is a huge issue in ND and it’s not necessarily them being ‘bad’.
Many adults still struggle with this as it is a key part of ADHD.

4. The bigger issue is your daughter not being able to assert her boundaries. If she does not want the family in her house she needs to say that. Rather than moaning and then it turning into a debate around the child’s behaviour and/or ADHD which is not something your daughter can control. She can control her own actions in saying no to the mother for a play date.

Absolutely agree with you.

The issue is not about neurodiversity and whether "it was around" in the OPs day. It's about having a child in one's house and garden who one doesn't want there. Just say it's not working because the children don't get on. No need for a debate about anything else.

I have had ADHD and dyspraxia all my life. I am 82. My son is the same and DGS has ADHD and disautonomia. My son's and then my dyspraxia were diagnosed 40 years ago. The probability we both hadADHD was suggested afew years later

DS and I went through normal school without being disruptive. We had our problems but they only affected us, not other children or teachers.

I would notsay that troublesome children with ADHD was the resullt ofbad parenting. There will always be those at the extremes, but I do think a lot suffer from inappropriate parenting.

Iam64

My 39 year old daughter was only diagnosed as dyslexic when retaking maths and science gcse. She somehow managed a 2.1 in performance drama degree, but needed better gcse science and maths for her pgtc.
I’d first suggested she’s dyslexic at 7, again at 11, again at 16, sixth form. She’d gone to good schools, well supported at home and she’s a very hard worker
The diagnosis stopped her saying - well I’m not very bright ami I“
She was an excellent teacher.. she’s now supporting her 9 year old who got a diagnosis after gran paid

Sad how children didn't get the right help, I suppose it still happens. Congratulations on your daughter's achievements you must be proud and lovely that you got the assessment for your grandchild.

ExDancer

*theworriedwell*, I think I may have tried to bring my own children up to be polite and kind to people with mental problems. To exclude them from activities just because they are 'different' seems unkind.
Anyway, this post was really a request for an explanation re the meaning of the bewildering list of initials we are faced with - I used the little girl as an example that's all, not as an invitation for perfect mothers to shoot me down in flames.
What I should have asked is ..... please explain what all these initials mean, and why are so many children labelled with them these days.

No be honest, you were being judgemental but it isn't as much fun when you're the one being judged. If you'd just wanted to know what the letters mean you could Google it or just ask the question.

Mollygo

^Does it worry you that you brought up a daughter who seems unable or unwilling to protect her child? What do you think went wrong?^

What an awful accusation.

When we were younger, we were never faced with the expectations that we have today. If we saw a badly behaved child, that’s exactly what we could say.

We didn’t have to worry that others would accuse us of being uncaring about the multitude of labels that have proliferated with the growth of knowledge and the endless quest for reasons.

By the time my DGS with ASC was having meltdowns in cafés or playgrounds, we still expected to deal with the situation to lessen the impact on others. Many abandoned cups of coffee (mine) and ice creams (his) and planned picnics in the park and endless preparatory social stories later, he slowly began to realise that his behaviour had consequences he didn’t like, and understand that the behaviour patterned in the stories was what he should do.
It wasn’t a cure, just management.

Now there is as much if not more censure of people objecting to the sort of behaviour mentioned in the OP as there is of the parents trying to deal with it.

I was making a point, sorry you missed it. Exdancer is very judgemental, how does she like being judged?

My 39 year old daughter was only diagnosed as dyslexic when retaking maths and science gcse. She somehow managed a 2.1 in performance drama degree, but needed better gcse science and maths for her pgtc.
I’d first suggested she’s dyslexic at 7, again at 11, again at 16, sixth form. She’d gone to good schools, well supported at home and she’s a very hard worker
The diagnosis stopped her saying - well I’m not very bright ami I“
She was an excellent teacher.. she’s now supporting her 9 year old who got a diagnosis after gran paid

When I was at primary school I have a memory of there being two classes in my final year. The class I was in which consisted of children that the school thought would pass the 11+. But there was another class. All I can assume is that the children in it had various problems, autism, dyslexia etc. I even had a friend decades ago who was a primary school headmistress and I can remember her saying that there was no such thing as dyslexia. So many children must have fallen through the cracks .

Well SkyDancer, I’m your generation and I’m not certain who you mean by “these children”. Or indeed whether you believe labelling children as naughty is a more effective way of meeting their needs than having a professional assessment. That identifies whether poor parenting (Welsh poppy) or neuro diversity underpinned the difficulties
I was involved in running parenting skills groups at CAMHS an in family centres. Some children are more difficult to bring up than others

I give up! I actually said "*apparently being* ADHD" because that's what her mother told us.
I remain suitably chastised by you all for being such a bad mother in not bringing up my daughter to care for her own daughter, and for using the wrong words to describe the child.
(thanks for the explanation Commonground)

I worked in child mental health for a while (admin) when these letters started becoming a thing. My consultant at the time refused to diagnose these conditions and certainly wouldn't prescribe medication until ALL other treatments had been ruled out. He said that in the majority of cases the children weren't the problem but the parenting or lack of was the thing that needed sorting. Very few of his patients (he wouldn't call them clients) were ever put on medication and almost all found strategies whereby they could deal with the behaviours and were hugely grateful for his input and care.

I have two with labels, found a lot of parent excuse disruptive behaviour that spoils it for everyone, soon people will avoid interacting. I would not allow my 4 yr old daughter to be traumatised by the boy that's dropped off to play, I would tell the mother I can’t cope with it and the effect it has on my daughter. With six such children in a class what effect has this on the other children who need to learn. What a problem for teachers now.

In my day these children would have just been called “naughty”.

It’s got nothing to do with a diagnosis and everything to do with poor parenting. My son has autism, as do I and I’m certain my father had it too. We’re all very academic but not great in social situations. I tend to be quite black and white about some issues.

Your daughter knows the other parent is ineffectual so she needs to step in and deal with the issue herself every time the other child does something that causes harm.

Is it fear of a falling out that’s holding her back? If so, ask her why she’s putting her own fears above her young daughter’s need to feel safe and secure?

My 16yr old son has autism and he’s extremely studious and quiet and consequently bullied by some of the other boys in his year because he never stands up for himself.

When he was little and I was hosting play dates, if the other children’s behaviour was off, I’d step in and correct them if their parent didn’t.

My house, My rules.

So you start by saying “In this house we don’t hit each other so you need to say sorry to X and give back the toy you snatched away.” Then you distract them to look for another toy.

Children with SEND can still learn to socialise with others if they’re given the right guidance and you don’t wimp out and pretend that everything’s fine.

Tell your daughter to step in and deal with the problem straightaway instead of meekly letting this other child cause havoc.

Fartooold😂😂😂

I agree with your last point Commonground. I would never refer to my grandson as autistic as I am sure people rarely say someone is asthmatic. My grandson has autism even though he will never admit it and is desperate to be accepted as neurotypical. He has lots of other qualities apart from autism.

Commonground you made me smile someone said my three suffer from Down Syndrome no they do not, they have Down Syndrome. I may suffer they do not!!!

ExDancer

*theworriedwell*, I think I may have tried to bring my own children up to be polite and kind to people with mental problems. To exclude them from activities just because they are 'different' seems unkind.
Anyway, this post was really a request for an explanation re the meaning of the bewildering list of initials we are faced with - I used the little girl as an example that's all, not as an invitation for perfect mothers to shoot me down in flames.
What I should have asked is ..... please explain what all these initials mean, and why are so many children labelled with them these days.

ASD is Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
ADHD is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.
In your original post you say that she "is ADHD". This is offensive as she is not defined by her disorder. She "has" ADHD.

Those of us who work in this field have tried that, we have also asked questions about a child of 4 being diagnosed with ADHD as this is not usual practice.

theworriedwell, I think I may have tried to bring my own children up to be polite and kind to people with mental problems. To exclude them from activities just because they are 'different' seems unkind.
Anyway, this post was really a request for an explanation re the meaning of the bewildering list of initials we are faced with - I used the little girl as an example that's all, not as an invitation for perfect mothers to shoot me down in flames.
What I should have asked is ..... please explain what all these initials mean, and why are so many children labelled with them these days.

This is an odd thread

1. You say the child was not told off - how do you know? How do you know the mum did not sit with them at home and reinforce what is unacceptable or not?

2. Kids do break things. The child is 4. Whether or not she has ND is irrelevant. This happens with kids and you do not know what conversations happened at home about it.

3. Impulsivity is a huge issue in ND and it’s not necessarily them being ‘bad’.
Many adults still struggle with this as it is a key part of ADHD.

4. The bigger issue is your daughter not being able to assert her boundaries. If she does not want the family in her house she needs to say that. Rather than moaning and then it turning into a debate around the child’s behaviour and/or ADHD which is not something your daughter can control. She can control her own actions in saying no to the mother for a play date.

Right?!

Sorry OP but just because you never heard of these things back in your day doesn't mean they're made up. Your generation would blame it on something else and look the other way. Or maybe smack their kids because one was scared by loud noises

I agree that this behaviour is unacceptable and that your daughter needs to be firmer about stopping this child coming to “play” with your GD.
However you are wrong in thinking that ADHD is anything new. Hippocrates identified it in children some 2400 years ago. He recommended plenty of excercise and giving them fish to eat. Interestingly fish oil supplements are still advocated for ADHD today.

Thanks Margiknot for high lighting the sensitivity, higher level of support and direction that’s likely to be needed with neuro diverse children.
My six year old grandchild looks older because he’s much taller than any others in his year group. He’s kind, articulate, and compassionate at school. He is sensitive and struggles with perceived criticism. He hasn’t been formally assessed but luckily his mum taught primary nine years and his form teacher is the Senco so supports are in place.
I’m relieved we recognise neuro diversity these days rather than just getting cross with distracted fidgety children