I miss my grandchildren

Perhaps offer to meet in a park or other public space sit and chat on a bench with their Mum whilst the children play.

It has been a long time in the children’s lives.

Meeting casually several times might have a better effect than a big meet-up.

It sounds as if your exDIL is at least willing to ask the children (you don't mention their ages) which is something, even if they are saying no.

If mum is open to it, I would also keep it very low-key, and meet up in a cafe or park somewhere where everyone would feel fairly comfortable and see where that goes.

As for your son I do understand your predicament, as I am facing a similar kind of situation myself. My son has made some very silly mistakes and may now be about to pay for them, and I am equally frightened for the future of my GC.

I just want to say it isn't your fault yous son turned out like this- maybe he will eventually realise what he's done but you can't bank on that.

Build whatever connection you can with your GC and try not to.

You say your son has now back at home? Does that mean he is still living with you?

Poor kids. Not being allowed even supervised contact with dad, sounds pretty serious. Have you heard DIL's version of why?

Just keep up a one way contact with both children with cards, letters, birthday presents etc. Park meeting with Mum sounds like a good idea if she agrees, and you live close enough for it to seem like casual happenchance.

butterandjam, the dad hasn’t done anything the sw wanted to happen, it’s incredibly rare for no direct contact to happen, indirect contact like photographs, cards and letters is often a stepping stone

GranOO some indirect contact like cards, brief letter avoiding the dad issues then a meeting at a play centre, park or similar sounds a good start point for you . It’s so sad for children to lose half their family in situations like yiurs

If she's willing, perhaps you could meet your exDIL a few times, briefly, for coffee and an update on your GC. If they gradually realise that contact with you is acceptable they might come round to it eventually. Definitely a softly-softly approach.

My son mostly stays with his girlfriend, but doesn’t officially live with her. He pops in most days for things and stays a couple of nights too. He is saving a deposit and plans to buy a new home next year.

I love him very much, but he gets very angry if I’m not fully on his side. He can go weeks without talking to me if I upset him, so I don’t upset him. I know that I shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells to keep the peace, but I make and own that choice to have him in my life. He is my son and I love him.

I didn’t get on with exDIL towards the end of their marriage and she doesn’t contact me. I call/message her to see how the children are but she always answers/responds. I know that she doesn’t have to do this so I do appreciate it.

I haven’t ever spoken to her about what she or the children went through, but I have seen some of the reports and have obviously heard my sons version of events. The reports mentioned that the children were quite traumatised (more so, the one who really won’t entertain seeing/talking to me).

Conversation with her always feels very tense for both of us. I feel that I have to be loyal to my son and I think that she is very wary of me too.

I don’t think she would want to meet me herself and I am worrried to ask, but I will think about how best to do this/if I can avoid upsetting my son.

Have you talked with your son about your wish to see your grandchildren and how he would feel about that if it happens.
The info you’ve added about the reports on his behaviours raises red flags

Start off, not with too much intensity , with the one you can see. I'm saying the big picture is so complex that it's hard to find a "way in" and this could be it.

Do something pleasant and easy going with them, it could lead to better things.

He knows that I would like to spend time with them and is fine with that, but I don’t know how he would feel about me doing so with his ex wife there. She may say no anyway. It’s an idea that I am going to think about.

I understand why it’s difficult for your ex dil and if you havnt spoken to her about what happened maybe it’s time you did. She will think you are totally in his side so will be wary and it will be tense.It’s quite unusual if courts deny contact altogether, there will be a good reason and you have seen fur yourself how he can behave.

Why not ask to meet her for a coffee and chat and if she accepts listen to what she has to say. Take up the offer to meet your grandchild. With her present too, in a park as others suggest. I wish you well, but the most important people in all this are your grandchildren.

One grandchild has refused to meet, and the other twin won't meet without the other. A delicate matter, but it is good that your Daughter in law who may be traumatised by your son's behaviour as much as her children, is prepared to maintain contact with you.
I would tentatively suggest an 'accidental 'encounter in the Park or open space so that the children may run away and play if they wish and she may keep moving likewise.
I would not mention it to your son as he may use it as an excuse to make contact. The fact that he has traumatised his children is serious, and is endorsed by his behaviour to you, making you take great care not to upset him, in your own home. Of course you love him, but you must not allow him to traumatise you too, which is what he is doing.

Could the children be reassured that if they met you, there would be no talk or even mention of their father?

I can understand why the children back of seeing you on their own, they do not know you well and conversation may in the kindest possible way sound like an interrogation when you ask them about themselves and their lives. Could you perhaps take them out for the day, somwhere they would love to go, so that conversation would be about what they were doing and how you were all enjoying it together. There are so many events and entertainment sites from hstoric monuments to theme parks. If their mother would come it would help - and again by having whatever you are doing together to talk about it will help deal with the stiffness.

Gran00

My son mostly stays with his girlfriend, but doesn’t officially live with her. He pops in most days for things and stays a couple of nights too. He is saving a deposit and plans to buy a new home next year.

I love him very much, but he gets very angry if I’m not fully on his side. He can go weeks without talking to me if I upset him, so I don’t upset him. I know that I shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells to keep the peace, but I make and own that choice to have him in my life. He is my son and I love him.

I didn’t get on with exDIL towards the end of their marriage and she doesn’t contact me. I call/message her to see how the children are but she always answers/responds. I know that she doesn’t have to do this so I do appreciate it.

I haven’t ever spoken to her about what she or the children went through, but I have seen some of the reports and have obviously heard my sons version of events. The reports mentioned that the children were quite traumatised (more so, the one who really won’t entertain seeing/talking to me).

Conversation with her always feels very tense for both of us. I feel that I have to be loyal to my son and I think that she is very wary of me too.

I don’t think she would want to meet me herself and I am worrried to ask, but I will think about how best to do this/if I can avoid upsetting my son.

My goodness I could have written this post!

I have sent you a private message Gran00.

You are not on your own and I hope you get to see your GC very soon.

Thank you all for your advice, I really appreciate it.

keeping quiet I don’t have access to private messages yet. I have to wait 1-2 days so will keep an eye out for it over the weekend.