Daughter says no visitors for three months

While I can't imagine how difficult your situation must be St Trinians, I really don't think you can blame Social Media on your daughter's estrangement from you.
If that was the case every young person would cut their parents out.

My problem with ideas that come out of America is that their fundamental culture is transactional so there is generally, even within families, as sense of what is "owed". That is why this may have seemed appropriate to families there. However, we and our neighbours live in countries that are socially democratic - need over greed, so some of America's solutions don't suit us.

However, if the MIL and daughter have a relationship that leans more to the American model - which is favoured by a reasonable sized percentage in the UK - this may feel like an apt answer to the daughter.

Contagion

Wow. Just wow.

The entitlement is off the charts and grandparents are holding themselves in too much esteem.

Children only need a set of parents, everything else is just nice to have. Like a fun aunt or a cool uncle, mature grandparents are nice to have.

But you somehow managed to make someone elses pregnancy all about yourself and your needs.

Grandparents are supposed to be beacons of maturity and wisdom, yet you are acting more like a spoiled rotten, petulant child; caring more about how will you be seen by others rathers than your child's and grandchild's wellbeing. Shameful.

If I was your daughter and saw how you truly think, you would never be meeting your grandchild, or in other words, my child.

Not everyone should have become a parent, and some posts on this thread make that abundantly clear.

Oh dear.
Seriously??
Sounds like you really have the knives out.
And actually most posters are advising the OP to respect her DDs wishes even if they voice their own opinions about it, which even grans are allowed to do, letting off steam on here means it is hopefully easier to deal with calm acceptance when with our loved ones.
I find your post quite objectionable.

Smileless2012

My heart goes out to you StTrinians. We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for almost 14 years, there are no words to adequately describe how devastating this is. Letting go is hard but it's the only way for some peace to come back into your life x.

FWIW GlamGolfGran I think you're doing the right thing. You of course don't want to risk making the situation worse by saying anything to your D about her decision, and being concerned about bonding with a GC you may not be able to have a meaningful relationship with although very sad, is understandable and sensible IMO.

The last time we saw our eldest GS he was 8.5 months old and we'd not had a lot of contact with him. We never knew his brother and I've always said that I'm thankful that it was this way because we grieved for what we thought we would have but never did, rather than what we lost.

Having read so many posts over the years from GP's who have had the GC they've known and loved and in some cases helped out with childcare for years, suddenly taken away is heartbreaking not just for them, but in all likelihood the children too.

I can understand your reluctance in sharing what should be nothing but joyful news with your friends and I think this underpins the feeling that some have expressed here, of the rather OTT restrictions your D intends to put in place.

She may change her mind as her pregnancy progresses, I hope so and I hope that your understandable concern about what the future may bring will be unfounded .

When I read posts like Contagion's they go some way to explain why situations like this occur. What a thoroughly unpleasant response which as is usually to case, says more about the one who made it than the one it's aimed at.

So sorry you are in this situation Smileless. Is horrid. We have GCs in Australia we never see due to our son divorcing his wife and the wife now remarried. She actually was a lovely woman, our son was at fault. Tbh we haven’t seen our son for a long time either, but that is a long story.
Good advice. 💐

Fallingstar haven't you tried to contact your ex daughter in law to arrange a visit to see your grandchildren?
She divorced your son, not you>

Contagion

Wow. Just wow.

The entitlement is off the charts and grandparents are holding themselves in too much esteem.

Children only need a set of parents, everything else is just nice to have. Like a fun aunt or a cool uncle, mature grandparents are nice to have.

But you somehow managed to make someone elses pregnancy all about yourself and your needs.

Grandparents are supposed to be beacons of maturity and wisdom, yet you are acting more like a spoiled rotten, petulant child; caring more about how will you be seen by others rathers than your child's and grandchild's wellbeing. Shameful.

If I was your daughter and saw how you truly think, you would never be meeting your grandchild, or in other words, my child.

Not everyone should have become a parent, and some posts on this thread make that abundantly clear.

As a child of parents who only allowed me have a set of parents and no extended family of any kind, it is not true that is all children need. If it's all they know, they will accept it. Then they grow and become adults and realise what a hole they have in their life having no extended family bonds. Not that a few weeks after a birth is the deciding thing, but extended family might just be important to that child later in life. If only my parents had given some thought to that.

MarieElla

Fallingstar haven't you tried to contact your ex daughter in law to arrange a visit to see your grandchildren?
She divorced your son, not you>

We did see them as often as we could but always in Australia, our son has had scant contact with his own children otherwise the option of him bringing them to us would have been on the table. Now I am a full time carer for my husband so going to Australia isn’t going to work anymore. And our DiL doesn’t keep in contact very regularly, the GDs are teenagers ready to go to Uni so understandably they are no longer interested in going on a zoom call etc., with grandparents they haven’t seen in years.

Correction - ex DiL

Fallingstar.
I hope you do manage to establish a relationship with them.
Are they on Instagram?
If so, requesting to follow their pages is a good way to connect.

I see this from my own point of view ,my only pregnancy that went full term was my third.I told no one including my mother until it became obvious I was pregnant.
I told no one when I went into Labour.
When my daughter was born my husband called close family including my sister who was to do a raid on Mother care for all the baby essentials we would need.I bought nothing before she was born.
Visitors came but there were rules,my FIL didn,t like having to go into the garden to smoke but he did it .My younger sister had a tendency to kick the pram wheels or bump the cot to wake baby up,she was told do it once more and you don’t see her again.
Nobody objected.
When after a further 5 losses my son was born very premature again no one knew until he arrived .Visitors were restricted for his 10 weeks in SCBU so when he came home they were still restricted .FIL gave up smoking and both sets of GPs had great relationships with both children.
I don’t know if not wanting other people to care for them is about being obsessive about them loving other folk or if it’s being worried about something going wrong when you,re not around .
I was lucky I took both mine to work with me .My mother wouldn,t have watched them anyway she “raised her own and had no intention of raising any more”

My late MIL and my daughter were like best friends they called each other daily and told each other things they wouldn,t tell anyone else.Everyone does things the way that suits them

Thank you Fallingstar; I'm sorry for your situation too .

A valuable contribution to the discussion lovethepuppies. It's often assumed that 'what you've never had you wont miss' always applies to children who due to their parents estranging family miss out on GP's and extended family.

While I agree that social media can't be held 100% responsible for estrangement MarieElla, it does have a role to play with an all too common response to someone having parent or parent in law issues to estrange rather than trying to find a way to resolve the problem.

I think estrangement become entrenched with both parties refuse to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of SM's influence.

*when

If you take a look at the thread lovethepuppies started on the estrangement forum MarieElla 'Reducing contact because my heart isn't in it', you'll see what I mean.

MarieElla

I think estrangement become entrenched with both parties refuse to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of SM's influence.

Both

It seems many parents do not share responsibility for their actions, preferring to be correct in all matters. SM or mule like?

Many excuses and xenophobic reasonings justifying a lack of respect for the personal choices of other adults. It’s not any American’s fault that some here feel entitled to expect others to behave exactly as they approve. It’s not social media’s fault that new mums don’t want to spend the first few weeks playing host to visitors. I saw one complaint here about not being able to tell others about someone else’s pregnancy, as if the contents of another woman’s uterus should be up for group discussion simply because it makes a gran happy. I see another comment talking about a grandparent experience is already ruined…while the grandchild is still a fetus. I never heard the term ‘grandparent experience’ outside of the internet. If social media has an influence we must be honest and point out that it goes both ways. I think many grans get so caught up in the expectations that are influenced by others’ experience. Seeing the experiences posted on Facebook and hearing what friend, Sally, did with her grandchildren builds up expectations that eventually ignore the fact that the new parents get to decide. There is also the ‘this is how we did it and if you do things different they are wrong’ crowd. You had and needed visitors/help, therefore your daughters and DILs will be the same. We’re all individuals, despite the comments here. Seeing the world strictly through our own wants and expectations always leads to trouble. There are other valid perspectives and choices besides ours. Some comments highlight that wisdom doesn’t automatically come with age.

We cannot control anyone else’s decisions but we can control our reactions. We are responsible for our own feelings. Our role is to support our children, not to make their pregnancies, weddings, marriages extensions of our own desires.

I must have missed the complaint about not being able to tell others about someone else's pregnancy *BlessedArt^. Are you sure you're not incorrectly referring to the OP deciding not to tell friends about becoming a GM because she's been told she wont be able to see her GC for 3 months?

The OP is upset which IMO and it seems I'm not alone, is understandable being told she wont be able to see her GC for 3 months. She isn't making her D's pregnancy an extension of her own desire!!! The desire to see one's GC asap is a perfectly natural one, as is the disappointment to be told that wont be the case.

Excuse me for saying this but I think some posters are getting things out of proportion here. I haven’t read a post which is telling the OP to barge in regardless of her DDs boundaries. As far as I can see all are advising the OP to bide her time. The rest are just opinions which people are allowed to express and am pretty sure the OPs DD will not be privy to.

Couldn't agree more Fallingstar.

Fallingstar doesn't need any help, she's figured it just fine.

It is quite a devisive issue. Some very different opinions. We are all different.. but we have the same needs for family contact. I don't now feel that I can invade my daughter's safe space, especially if she is still angry with us. Not sure why... So it will rumble on. When or if, she ever changes her mind, then I may consider visiting. However, I have very little hope of things changing. 2 years of very little contact, and almost complete distancing is a cold shoulder. That is definite. I am not totally thick, or thick skinned. I have to accept it is what she wants, for whatever reasons, and I am trying to move on. Good luck Glamgolfgran...I hope it goes better for you than it has for us.

It's better to wait until you hear from her StTrinians, I know it's hard. I once saw it described it as reluctant acceptance because that is what it is and once we do accept it reluctantly we begin to heal, move on and rebuild our lives.

We did and so have many others; you can do it too and always remember that you are not alone .

Does she not realise bonding with your baby is instant if you are not suffering from post natal depression? I had 3 and just adored them immediately.
If you are depressed 3 months alone will not be helpful.

Smileless2012

I must have missed the complaint about not being able to tell others about someone else's pregnancy *BlessedArt^. Are you sure you're not incorrectly referring to the OP deciding not to tell friends about becoming a GM because she's been told she wont be able to see her GC for 3 months?

The OP is upset which IMO and it seems I'm not alone, is understandable being told she wont be able to see her GC for 3 months. She isn't making her D's pregnancy an extension of her own desire!!! The desire to see one's GC asap is a perfectly natural one, as is the disappointment to be told that wont be the case.

You must have also missed where I specifically attributed that sentiment to the OP. I was obviously making general comments on the thread at that point. Another poster complained about the length of time she wasn’t able to tell others about her daughter’s pregnancy, which is a strange grievance to have.

You may have also missed where I said the OP wasn’t allowed to feel a bit of disappointment. I clearly stated earlier that I would too, but I simply will not feed into the notion that this is such a huge deal it’s worth complaining about or pondering a response to. Certainly one realizes coming here to complain about the choices of a younger female relative is going to yield many harsh, disproportionate criticisms. Lot’s of encouragement to the OP to feel aggrieved. There is encouragement to wait for an opportunity of retaliation by way of rejecting future requests for help.
People post as though the OP doesn’t have to have a real relationship with her daughter. Focusing on only the negative feelings has zero positive real world impact. She still has to get along with her daughter. I hope you realize that it’s possible to feel disappointment without letting that feeling take center stage. It doesn’t have to be the only thing she and others focus on.

That’s what I meant by treating these milestones as an extension of us rather than focusing on the fact that they belong to our offspring. If your disappointment is the biggest emotion in your son/daughter’s milestone, we have to pause for a moment and remember this isn’t about us anymore. Let the disappointment fade and focus on being support. We can’t do that if we are focused on our expected “grandparent experience”.

Huia

Does she not realise bonding with your baby is instant if you are not suffering from post natal depression? I had 3 and just adored them immediately.
If you are depressed 3 months alone will not be helpful.

I think it’s more about not wanting to juggle having pushy guests. I’m sure she knows the biology of mums and babes truly bonding.