Should I complain about this? (Any nurses especially please) ?

Elizabeth27

I don't understand what your complaint would be, is it your nightie was up for longer as the wires were tangled or that the nurses did not speak whilst doing the ECG. The nurse that patted your knee could have mixed you up with someone else as you have not said anything that would elicit the comment that she would not hold it against you, unless you have missed something out.

I don't think Fanny has missed anything out. I think you perhaps haven't read it properly Elizabeth
The whole thing was undignified, unexplained unpleasant, distressing and unprofessional.

I think that's grounds for complaint.
It's hard enough to complain as it is without people minimising someone's distress.
You can read the distress in the language and phrasing of the post.
This was so upsetting and (basically) traumatic that she hasn't even been able to talk about it with her nearest and dearest.

I'm sure you didn't mean to sound unsympathetic but it did come across rather harsh. And do we know it was an ECG? Not knowing what is being done to you is demeaning and scary.

@Missadventure

^Nobody should lay a finger on anyone without asking permission, and explaining why.
It's technically assault.^

The thing here is that the majority of people just accept what medical staff say to them is gospel.

What needs to happen is that the whole issue of permission needs to be built into the training of new doctors and nurses, and those already qualified need to be sent on a course and sign a document at the end of it to say that they've attended the training and fully understand the implications if they don't follow these instructions and a patient complains about not having been included in discussions about their care or not being asked permission before anything is done to them.

Several years ago, I attended something called the 'Expert Patient Programme', which, amongst other things, taught us how to make medical professionals talk to us in a language we understand, and to let them know that we know our rights and to make it clear that they must do nothing without our express permission.
Not long after the course, my partner was admitted to hospital with Chronic Necrotising Pancreatitis, it was horrible and he spent several months as an inpatient.
On his 3rd day in hospital I met his consultant and we sat down in a meeting room with a nurse to discuss exactly what was wrong with him and how they planned to treat him. Once they'd finished, I then told them that as his next of kin, I would be his advocate but they also needed to know that I have MS and they needed to treat him/us holistically, they needed to take everything into consideration, so my MS needed to be a major consideration in my partner's case because if I was stressed it would likely cause a relapse in my condition and as such I wouldn't be able to look after myself, never mind my son or even to be at the hospital to support my partner. Once I'd finished telling them what we needed and how things would progress from our point of view, the consultant agreed that basically, WE would have the final say in everything they wanted to do and he said he wanted to talk to my specialist nurse to see whether there was anything she thought they needed to do to support me. The meeting was arranged for the following day and from that point, everything the nurses wanted to do to my partner, they either asked him or when he wasn't lucid, me. On one occasion, I walked onto the ward to find him sitting on his bed with a big plastic bubble thing that made him look like a spaceman on his head but he was crying (a 39yr old man). I asked him what was wrong and he told me 2 nurses had said that he'd 'got to' have this helmet, no reason why and no request for permission, and they'd just shoved this thing on his head and he hated it but they wouldn't take it off. I asked him whether he wanted to keep it on or take it off, he said off, so I took it off him. A nurse walked by and saw that we'd taken this thing off and came over to tell us off. She was the one who got the telling off because she was one of the two who's put this thing on him, I told her in no uncertain terms that he didn't want this and hadn't been asked for his permission, so we'd taken it off. She ran off to tell a more senior nurse who came over and we had a chat about what this thing was for and other options and we decided on another option. The same outcome was achieved after a civilised chat and agreement from us to another course of action, without any upset, which could have been done earlier if those nurses had only talked to him.

Please put in a complaint, what they did and how they behaved was totally unprofessional.

I have only been in hospital twice.

First time for a hysterectomy, disturbed by a nurse during the night asking me how I was, I told her I couldn’t feel my legs her response “now you know what it’ll feel like if you have a stroke”

Second time, acute infection to the point of delerium. I was on a drip, it got dislodged and started bleeding. I called the nurse who huffed and puffed and said “for Gods sake, I’ll have to do that again” with that I said don’t bother and pushed it back myself. I also asked for paracetamol, wasn’t asked what for, tried explaining and was told “I don’t need to know” considering I had high blood pressure at the time which is unusual for me and a major headache would have thought it was relevant.

Thank goodness for my husband who got me out of there and I had district nurses coming in three times a day to administer IV antibiotics.

Now I wouldn’t hesitate in giving feedback or formally complaining.

MissA I’m so sorry to hear that

Grandtante thank you, that’s given me lots of food for thought, and Marie too.

What I’m thinking is very odd is: I had two nurses who were ‘responsible’ for me every day I was there (3 days)
One in the day, and one at night.
They properly introduced themselves and we had a little chat about stuff.
The two nurses who did the ECG (if it was that) were unknown to me; and I didn’t see them again after the knee patting.

I had an ECG performed on me at the pre op assessment - and the nurse was exemplary. I didn’t feel uncomfortable at all.

As I said earlier, I have completed the online complaints form.
I was interested to hear that I should address the situation with my consultant.

NotSpaghetti thank you for addressing Elizabeths post - I didn’t really know what to say!

Nicolenet

You get what you pay for!

I don’t understand this at all!

FannyCornforth

MissA I’m so sorry to hear that

Grandtante thank you, that’s given me lots of food for thought, and Marie too.

What I’m thinking is very odd is: I had two nurses who were ‘responsible’ for me every day I was there (3 days)
One in the day, and one at night.
They properly introduced themselves and we had a little chat about stuff.
The two nurses who did the ECG (if it was that) were unknown to me; and I didn’t see them again after the knee patting.

I had an ECG performed on me at the pre op assessment - and the nurse was exemplary. I didn’t feel uncomfortable at all.

As I said earlier, I have completed the online complaints form.
I was interested to hear that I should address the situation with my consultant.

NotSpaghetti thank you for addressing Elizabeths post - I didn’t really know what to say!

I don’t think the consultant is the right person to address the complaint to FannyCornforth, your complaint is about nursing care, and the management of nurses will be down to the matron, not him or her.
As patients are allocated specific teams of nurses to care for them these days, which is aimed at improving the care of the patients, it’s most likely that the two staff who did your ECG had been asked to do so because the nurses allocated to you hadn’t been trained to carry out that test. It sounds like the nurse who attended you who was trained was meant to be teaching the other nurse with her to do it, as ECGs are usually only performed by one nurse.

Hi Casdon thank you.
There is absolutely no way that the nurse doing the ‘training’ was better qualified than my regular nurses.

She was wearing a different uniform (light blue, as opposed to dark) -I think that she was a Nursing Assistant.
And you could tell by her general demeanour.
She didn’t do the things that were second nature to the others.

Meanwhile, I don’t think that the trainee was a nurse at all, she was wearing a black uniform. I think that she was training to be a Nursing Assistant.

Sorry, I should have mentioned this earlier, I’ve been a bit misleading by calling them both Nurses.

There was definitely something fishy going on.
Perhaps the trainee had to catch up on things that her qualification needed. Something like that.
I’ve trained Teaching Assistants in the past, and I just got the sense of something rushed and underhand iyswim

Yes, you must complain. You were not treated in a dignified, professional way. And complain to the hospital manager..take it to the top immediately. It sounds as if those nurses had no bedside manner whatsoever and we all deserve respect. I would ask the manager if the training of nurses actually includes how to treat people as human beings. Good luck!

Sorry to hear you’ve had all this upset Fanny. I think it’s possible they were ECG technicians rather than nurses and they’ve come with the mobile equipment from their dept. That would explain why they were unknown to you and you didn’t see them again. Their conduct was completely unprofessional and you are right to complain.

Thank you GNW
I’m more angry than anything.
They weren’t technicians as neither were at all competent with the equipment.
At one point it spewed out reems of blank paper.
It was farcical really.
I really should have just told them to stop and go away!

I had the opposite experience when I was given an ecg recently in hospital. The doctor did and was trying to attach the electrodes on my chest by feeling under my top. I flung my top up and told her that would make it easier. She was quite put out as she told me she was trying to by discrete!

Pleased complain, I am lucky and always received excellent treatment. In fact after every hospital appointment I receive a text from the hospital trust asking me how it went.

FannyCornforth

Hi Casdon thank you.
There is absolutely no way that the nurse doing the ‘training’ was better qualified than my regular nurses.

She was wearing a different uniform (light blue, as opposed to dark) -I think that she was a Nursing Assistant.
And you could tell by her general demeanour.
She didn’t do the things that were second nature to the others.

Meanwhile, I don’t think that the trainee was a nurse at all, she was wearing a black uniform. I think that she was training to be a Nursing Assistant.

Sorry, I should have mentioned this earlier, I’ve been a bit misleading by calling them both Nurses.

There was definitely something fishy going on.
Perhaps the trainee had to catch up on things that her qualification needed. Something like that.
I’ve trained Teaching Assistants in the past, and I just got the sense of something rushed and underhand iyswim

Sorry FannyC I hadn’t worded it very clearly, when I said better qualified I meant that she had received the training and passed, specifically to do ECGs, it’s an extra bit of training which not all nurses have been trained to do. My guess is that your regular nurses weren’t certificated.

Made in Yorkshire, I agree about the surgery was great but the aftercare and the pre-op imformation were terrible. (2002, Derby) Not joined-up communications in after care , almost no advice on self care, badly run ward, demoralising lack of privacy in the ward where junior doctors were worse than the nurses re screens and confidentiality.

I blame the consultant and my GP for not taking enough responsibility for monitoring the pre -op and after care of patients.

Nurses are basically there to do the bidding of the doctors especially the consultant in charge.

If the nursing care is inadequate the consultants should complain to the chief nurses or the ward managers, and certainly must cooperate with the GP as to who is responsible for what.

I had both hips replaced (6 months apart) privately. The first time I was in a general ward and the staff were friendly, helpful and explained procedures. The second time I was in a private section and felt I was a pain for being there. I got to the room early evening and was offered cheese on toast which I think was just microwaved cheese on bread. No helpful information, no explanations. I needed more painkiller and when I said oramorph had made me feel really sick the nurse looked cross.
I did complain to the consultant’s secretary on one of my later checkups. She said it was perhaps that supply nurses were on that day and she would pass on the complaint as they do need such information.

Well!
I’ve just received a letter from the Director of the hospital, saying that they have started to look into it; and if I need to speak to anyone, I am to ring his PA.

Things are moving then. Let’s hope you get at least an apology and an explanation.

Good news Fanny.
Well done you.

Good luck with your complaint. I've only complained once and that was about the care that my mother received. Ended up going as far as I could take it, up to and including her MP. What happened? Nothing. It's almost unbelievable that disciplinary action was not taken but that's the case. I think that more people should complain but it's a difficult path.
.

Thanks for the positive update fanny

Good news Fanny! So far, so good.

Very glad that you've received an initial response FannyC; please don't leave it any longer than 10 days, from the date of that response, before you check back with him for an update. 2 reasons: 10 days allows for him to check who was on duty on that shift pattern, speak to them and their supervisor/s, obtain their statement of events and decide on what course of action, if any, is to be carried out. The 2nd reason is that allowing 10 days, indicates that you're taking this very seriously and are not prepared to allow it to be swept under the carpet - you want answers.

Thank you Chewbacca, yes, I have decided that I need to contact the Director’s PA, as what I wrote initially was a very basic account of what happened.
The more that I think about it, the more I realise that that young woman to whom I referred should have absolutely no place in a health care setting.

Nicolenet

You get what you pay for!

What??

Well done FannyC. I'm so glad they're investigating it. ?

Nurses have no right to treat patients like things, or imbeciles, or numbers. That is why you go the pat on the knee, a sort of faux apology to prevent any complaints.