Mindfulness for Depression/Anxiety?

there is one rowantree

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/support-community-elefriends/

I've just started a yoga class, after a 12 year break. Mindfulness is part of it, and I'm also reading a book about Mindfulness. Just thinking about it, has reminded me I used to meditate, and do yoga and how much better I felt for it. Not saying it's a new year's resolution, or anything.

I am doing the Take 10 thing at the moment: that, and some of the Bodyscan meditations on a CD I have. I'm determined to keep it up and try not to judge whether it's 'working' or not, just DO it and see what happens.

Well done on the yoga class. I took one last year - found it hard as I'm not a very physical person, and I'm overweight, but I know it helps a lot of people and is VERY beneficial if you can keep it up.

What is the Take 10 things Rowan?
I found the 1st class a real 'stretch', but got back into the breathing and stretching to the best of my limited ability.
Let's carryon on Rowan

Take 10 is a website/app founded by Andy Puddecombe - a former Buddhist monk, I think, but he teaches mindfulness meditation. Take 10 is free but if you want to register for Take 15, you pay a subscription and you have it on your mobile (or PC, or whatever). I am planning to subscribe to the next bit once I've completed Take 10.

What's the book you're reading about Mindfulness?

I find it challenging to remember it when my mood drops for whatever reason - for instance the thought of staying indoors tomorrow, or the knowledge that friends are planning a trip away to Venice (there's no reason why they shouldn't, but I find it so difficult to get excited or look forward to things these days and feel so envious of those who can - not something I am proud of or seek, at all).
My emotions then overwhelm me and drag me down and I find it very difficult to extricate myself. Mindfulness would have me accept them and be aware of them - that's not easy to do when you have painful and uncomfortable emotions you don't like having.

But I will persevere nevertheless.....

It seems that Mindfulness is taking over from CBT as the in thing & cure all. Is there someone behind it who is packaging it in a very saleable form? It seems to me to be a re-packaging of methods & philosophies that have been around for years. Nothing wrong with it, especially if it works for you, but having been around this area for a long time I suffer from a severe case of cynicism after seeing the money some people & commercial organisations make, especially when pulling practitioners into the system - Level 1 & 2 training, then Advanced training, training the trainer courses, special issue courses and everything has to be accredited by their organisation who put a load of restrictive practices around their method to exclude people who use the same thing in a different form.

Well, mindfulness has been around for a long time, but as you say it's difficult to separate the honest practitioners from the bandwaggoners and there are plenty of those.

I first did a course at the Buddhist Centre near me several years ago and it made a lot of sense. But the course was only 8 weeks long and though I tried to keep up the practices, without the support of a group, I fell by the wayside, so to speak. I'm trying again now. I don't know whether it will ultimately help - I seem to have tried all sorts of self help, to no avail, and the NHS therapy I'm having now (Mentalisation Based therapy) isn't helping - it's making me feel WORSE but my psychiatrist still encourages me to see it through! There are some people who swear by it; others don't. Mindfulness seems to be common-sense, in a way; eminently do-able if you are able to commit to doing it every day and what do you have to lose (provided you haven't splurged out on an expensive programme, that is!)

If I'd found anything else that was helpful over the years via the NHS I'd be delighted. As it is, the drugs don't work and neither does the therapy. I guess there's always trepanning.....

I find it really hard to sort of shut my brain down. I have worried recently that the way my brain is isn't "normal", in that I can have 2 or 3 things going on in there at the same time, very difficult to explain.

Mindfulness - a practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world - Mark Williams and Denny Penman. I've read the first few pages, and looked at the chapter headings so far.

It's true that the basic ideas about relaxation, meditation etc have been around for ever, and get recycled and updated in a fairly consistent way. Phoenix, your brain is as normal as the rest of us - otherwise there wouldn't be a proliferation of books/cd's/courses and so on doing so well commercially.

I share some of Gadabouts feelings about Mindfulness and CBT. I am not a fan of CBT, especially in the way it's being pushed as a cure all for any form of anxiety or depression. However, I don't see that having a go at meditation, or applying mindfulness techniques to daily life has the potential to cause damage to people in the way that some other techniques may.

I have that book, Iam64, and I'm re-reading it at the moment - and using the CD that came with it.

I had CBT years ago - 'delivered' by a very young girl who seemed to have read the same CBT book that I had! It didn't make any difference to how I felt, but I didn't have the heart to say it hadn't helped at all (I didn't want to hurt her feelings!) It did teach me a bit about thinking errors, but didn't alter my thoughts or feelings. Maybe I was too old for it to work - perhaps it's better with younger patients who are less set in their unhelpful thought patterns, who knows?
Totally agree, Iam, with what you say about Mindfulness not doing any harm - whereas psychodynamic therapy, which I've also had, definitely made me feel a lot worse - as does the Mentalisation-Based therapy I'm struggling through at the moment!

I'll google Mentalisation-Based therapy Rowan. I do hope your therapy is one of those where feeling worse for a while, is replaced by feeling a whole lot better. You're a stayer aren't you, keeping on keeping on. So many people attend one or two sessions of any kind of therapy, and then walk, spending the rest of their lives telling everyone that therapy is no good. Have a good Sunday

I came across this article, I haven't read it properly yet, just skimmed it, but in case it's helpful, here you go:

psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/01/19/how-does-mindfulness-reduce-depression-an-interview-with-john-teasdale-ph-d/

Iam64 - thank you. I feel so guilty for wanting to quit MBT. But I'm VERy good at feeling worse all by myself. If I had a pound for everyone who told me I'd feel worse before I felt better, I would be so rich by now!
I stuck out all the CBT I had and did exactly what was asked of me. I attended a year's psychdynamic therapy, religiously, despite feeling a LOT worse and no better. And now this - I wanted to give it a chance to work so have been attending almost all sessions (two whole days a week, more or less) despite feeling it wasn't right for me. I think that after 9 months of it I am in a position to say that it's unlikely to make a difference - I haven't noticed any improvement at all and have had some really bad patches which therapy hasn't been able to address. I feel guilty because in some ways I'm 'lucky' to have therapy but the therapy is only worth having if it's the right treatment. If not it's a waste of time and resources. I'd rather someone who would really benefit should have my place - and there are plenty of those.
I will be having a review in early Feb and I need to decide what to do then. I am torn - I feel it's my fault I haven't benefitted, that I'm doing something wrong somewhere, but rationally that isn't the case. MBT isn't right for everyone with my diagnosis.
I will persevere for the time being, though, and also with Mindfulness. What else can I do?
Grannyknot - thanks for the link - it is helpful and reinforces what I thought. Those authors are all well-known and respected in the field of Mindfulness based therapy.

Have now had my review and have left the MBT programme, after battling on with it for 9 months. It definitely wasn't helping and I tried my hardest to engage with it and also to support others on the programme.

I now have to decide 'what next' and after feeling very anxious recently, I'm now into a highly unpleasant 'low' phase. It feels like walking through treacle. I feel constantly exhausted, dread waking up in the morning, can't focus on doing much and feel everything is pointless. The antidepressant drug I'm on doesn't seem to be helping so I will have to phase that out. I am continuing with the meditation programme, though. Would love to hear from other sufferers from this horrible condition, depression and/or anxiety, and how you manage and cope from day to day. I very much want to be able to help myself, somehow.

Rowantree, I am so sorry you are suffering so much, may I ask how long have you been on the anti depressants ? I have been where you are and know your despair, please hold onto the fact that you can come through this, you truly can x

Anniebach, I've been on them several months. I'm on the highest dose of mirtazapine. I am truly trying so hard to pull myself out of this, but I just feel despair of ever feeling better. I feel as if it's all my fault for being so weak and feeble. I try and arrange my week so I see people and go out, but sometimes, as this weekend, we aren't seeing anyone and I feel bleak and desperate. My DH is trying to persuade me to go into London after lunch by train, and I will psych myself up to do that, because the alternative is too awful - I have no energy and just feel like crying much of the time. Oddly enough, a few days ago I was feeling intense anxiety - which had been going on for a few weeks at least and linked to this horrendous therapy programme I was on.
Other people seem to just get on with their lives contentedly; I don't feel there is any purpose or meaning, and the things I used to enjoy doing I have little enthusiasm for now. I just don't know if I will ever feel better, or what to do to kick myself into touch! How did you get through, and what helped for you?
I really appreciate your kind comments - it means a lot, thank you! xx

I would go and see someone who uses aromatherapy or Bach flower remedies, Rowan. You obviously do not want, from what you say, to put more chemicals/pills into your body.

I think you've got to carry on speaking to people [both professional and non professional]. I've learned more about depression over the past few weeks than I've learned throughout my life [both on this forum and on another]. You must keep talking Rowantree; there will be an answer out there. But I personally feel you need the right medication in the right dose and I'm sure there's an answer somewhere. Big hug on it's way...

Rowantree, if you are going into London, try to go to a shop selling aromatherapy oils and get some clary sage. When you get back home put a couple of drops on your radiators, so it affects the atmosphere.
It might make you feel better, but it will not do you any harm.

Rowan, you mustn't think others are getting on with life contentedly, this happens with depression, the majority have problems but when we are depressed we do think others are living a carefree life. Please don't compare yourself to others because when depressed you will only see the positive in other people and the negative in yourself. Depression takes away our selfworth, it robs us of so much my love.

Do you have a doctor who listens? has he diagnosed depression and anxiety?
Sorry to ask questions, I am trying to work out where you are now to where I was when it hit me

Rowantree, you sound as if you need a good (((((hug))))) - sorry I'm not there to do it properly. Do you have a shoulder to cry on, someone who understands? What's more, have you had a physical check up recently? Your lack of energy might be more than psychologically based. An MOT that includes blood tests for vitamin deficiencies might throw up something that's contributing to your depression. If you haven't got a doctor who thinks holistically, perhaps you should try another one.

PS Vitamin D deficiency can make you tired and listless.

Decided on balance not to venture into London - the weather, and the fact that DH has a lot he wants to get on with....but coming back to look at Gransnet makes me feel hugged and warm, so thank you all so much for that, though it's also made me cry (but not in a bad way).
I have battled with depression and anxiety for decades, on and off - though during the childrearing years we were both focused on family life, including raising a child with Goltz syndrome and mental health problems, for which there was precious little help or support out there. My mental health has deteriorated markedly over the last 8-10 years, not helped by the break-up of a long standing friendship with a lady I had a small business with for a few years. She decided 5 years ago that she didn't want to work with me any more, but wanted to spend more time with her family (fair enough) but then 'took up with' someone else who became her sidekick and I had to withdraw from all the activities we did together because it would have been awkward otherwise. Mutual friends were more hers than mine, so I had to withdraw and despite trying to keep contact with some of them for a while, they cut me in the same way that Ex-Friend did. I blamed myself, partly - it's never one person's fault, any relationship is complicated at times - but the way she did it was rather heartless ( she broke the news to me just as we were preparing to go to court with DD2 after DD2 was assaulted). Ex-friend also 'dropped' another friend of hers who was disabled and whom she considered a burden, so it wasn't just me.
None of that should affect how I am now - I've had time to 'get over' it, and arguably my low mood and negativity, partly resulting from the stress of my daughter's severe health problems, had affected the friendship, so I can't blame her for wanting shot of me if that's what she felt. I have tried to rebuild my life - joining u3a, trying various groups there, re-establishing some old friendships, but it has knocked my already shaky confidence still further, there's no doubt. And in the last few years, DH has retired, and is enjoying the freedom - I was hoping to feel the same, but I find I can't find much pleasure in the interests I used to have, whereas he is discovering and enjoying new things all the time. I don't grudge him that at all, I just wish I could share them too.

Durhamjen - I do see a reflexologist every few weeks and am seeing her again on Tuesday. I don't have any faith in it as a 'cure' but I do enjoy the relaxing massage and she does often use aromatherapy oils. I hadn't thought of clary sage -there was a time I used to collect oils so I will have a look and see if I have any and try your suggestion

I have a psychiatrist but I'm not seeing him till the end of March now - I will try and get to see him again sooner. Not sure he can do much - there is only a limited amount of drugs he can prescribe for me as I can't take SSRIs (interaction with migraine meds). My DH is supportive and does his best, but I don't want to drag him down and stop him enjoying his life. It's not easy having a depressive spouse!

So I've decided on a plan for the rest of the day....I will go to the local garden centre to buy new secateurs (! I know, I know, how exciting is that), call in to see a friend, if she's in, then come home, meditate, have an aromatherapy bath, cook dinner and read a bit. Hopefully my black mood will have lifted a little.
But it's helpful beyond measure having support and hugs from you lovely, patient, understanding Gransnetters. Bless you. xxxxxx

Very good point anno. I've recently had 'full bloods' taken and discovered I had trace vit. D. Injections followed by glass vials full of the stuff every week for a month (v. old fashioned, the french) - and now just pop a daily pill. Have bags more energy and a clearer mind.