Borderline Personality Disorder

I am convinced we have all got Borderline Personality Disorder. Insofar as it exists.

Is she getting any meds for her depression and anxiety?

That was probably not a very helpful post. Sorry.

I only have experience of anxiety and depression, and I have found antidepressants to be very helpful. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs.

I was terrified of mental illness as well, as my dear mum suffered for years, and tried to take her life several times, and her father had indeed committed suicide.
This can make it very hard to seek help and be totally honest when things start to unravel, as I found to my cost a couple of years ago,when I had what I guess would have been called a nervous breakdown back in the day.

I found my meds, and counseling really helped..encourage your daughter to look at local support groups -we have an excellent mental health forum in Dorset, and it makes you realise you are not alone, that having mental ill health is so common its almost normal, and can also learn coping tips from others

I wish your DD a return to feeling herself soon

I agree with you, jingl. Who can really say with any conviction that they are truly 'normal'?

Meds can help with lots of conditions these days. I do hope your DD is getting support from her GP, Lucy.

Lucy, so sorry to read of your worry 're your daughter. I also wonder whether it's better to not attach a label. Ana, Jings and Susie have all pointed out that mental health problems are common and who's to say what's "normal" -and according to what or whom. I prefer to think of people as eccentric .

I hope your daughter finds some equilibrium soon.

A friend's daughter was diagnosed with BPD a few years ago. She took an overdose three times. She was on meds and had counciling. She also had a couple of voluntary admissions.
The physics have now decided she doesn't have BPD but say she has clinical depression. She is still on meds, and is doing ok at present.
My daughter still has bouts of depression at 27 after losing her best friend when they were 14. In fact I know of two other girls of that generation who also suffer.
Is it more prevalent among women ?

I am always wary about these 'do not fix label' phrases. Whatever my problems I want a diagnosis. To then describe someone as 'a depressive' or 'a BPD sufferer' is not acceptable but to say someone has a diagnosis of....., I would find helpful. Denying a medical problem, mental or physical, can be damaging, again, mentally and physically.

Lucy, I too would be worried and concerned in your place. Are there any support groups for the families of those with mental problems? Can an organisation like MIND help you, it may be worth contacting your local branch. Mental illness affects the family as well as the patient and the family need as much support as the person who is ill.

Would your daughter benefit from counselling for her worries about becoming like her grandmother, as well as the treatment the hospital is providing? What ever her problems, a fear like this, rational or irrational, will not help her recovery.

Flickety, being diagnosed is fine, if the diagnosis can be trusted. And to be found to be "borderline" anything in my book means very little. What does that actually mean?! (And I'm sure there's a chapter or 2 in the DSM 5 or similar on it, but that word is extremely vague).

Borderline personality disorder is diagnosed far more frequently in women than men, and often seems to be used when medics aren't sure what is going on but want to attach a label IMO. As others have said, the label can then change with no change in symptoms, and for those reasons I don't think it is a particularly helpful label to have.

I think the suggestions above, of support groups and MIND are helpful ones. Try not to get too hung up on the specific diagnosis - an ever changing thing in psychiatric disorders of all types anyway - and support your daughter to find the treatment and therapy that suits her.

Jingle she takes 40g citalopram for her depression and anxiety and Valium for panic attacks (which she rarely takes) but the underlying cause is not being treated as sh hasn't been officially diagnosed as having BPD. DD1 and I have suspected she has this as her behaviour is absolutely spot on. My main problem is persuading her to go back for another assessment.

This is not about general anxiety and depression which many people live with. her behaviour is abnormal.

This describes the behaviour to a T:

'Borderlines are stuck with their own intolerable feelings and they feel trapped. Being around them is like walking on eggshells even if they've had intensive therapy. Their underlying fear is one of abandonment, so they bring it about by either abandoning first so they are in charge or by forcing others to abandon them. So they control any abandonment. Often it is the ones they love and depend on the most that they hurt. They fear the vulnerability of deep attachments.

Borderlines are usually very jealous and insecure and of course, nothing is ever their fault. And there is only one way to do things -- their way.

Borderlines are terrified of their feelings usually because they were not validated as children when they felt frightened or overwhelmed or proud of an achievement. Often they were ignored or felt abandoned.

Borderlines need to understand that what they are experiencing are just their "feelings" and very importantly that everyone has feelings -- not only them. They can learn about practicing mindfulness and how to talk themselves down, but many of them don't want to. They crave being the center of shocked attention because It proves they exist and are in control of their family members or partners. Often they have emotional scenes or meltdowns while loved ones just stare in disbelief. The general public only sees the composed side. The borderline sees things as black or white. No nuanced perceptions, because "feelings" get in the way of clear thinking.

night owl good post.

Lucy how would your daughter being officially diagnosed treat the underlying cause? If you say she is terrified of being classed as mentally ill, and it seems she is managing her symptoms of anxiety well, why do you think this diagnosis necessary?

I understand how worried you are.

Lucy thank you for explanation, which crossed my post.

Thanks everyone for your comments and support. It is very difficult to persuade a 28 year old woman who is also stuck somewhere in her childhood where she flet safer than she does now.

She goes to a therapist once a week (about the fourth one she has tried) FlicketB It is a good suggestion that she talks about her fears about being like her grandmother. I know what her reaction will be when I suggest it to her tho: Do you think I am like Grandma? and I will have to answer No because her grandmother was narcissistic which DD2 is not, and yet DD2 most def has signs of mental ill health.

I have enough of a struggle persuading her to see her GP. We have in the past contacted MIND which is what led her to getting herself assessed 18 months ago by the local mental health services here in Wandsworth. I don't think they did a very good job as they basically signed her off with CBT and that didn't work, and they didn't keep her on the books, as it were.

I understand that being given a label may or may not be helpful (my partner's psychiatrist doesn't believe in them either) but waffling around not understanding what these symptoms and behaviour is and being dreadfully unhappy doesn't help her either. Stick and a hard place really

She has alienated DD1 by her behaviour at Xmas so they no longer talk to one another as DD2 is expecting DD1 to apologise, but DD1 doesn't really have anything to apologise for imo and I have tried explaining this to DD2 to no avail.

We are a very broken family as my husband and I divorced after he came out as gay after 30 years of marriage, I think I have mentioned on another post. The girls coped with the fact he was gay but not his years of betrayal and deceit. DD2 was already suffering from mental health issues before that happened but the breakdown of the family exacerbated it.

Lucy big hug.

Thanks Grannyknot

lucyinthesky I read your description of a BPD and it would fit many people though maybe to a less extreme extent.

Many of us fear abandonment/commitment, feel jealous and take things out on our nearest and dearest. We are also inclined to think things aren't our fault.

Really, a close friend or family member cannot diagnose a mental illness in someone.

The other thing is that when one member of a family is labelled as mentally ill it lets everyone else off the hook for family problems.

I'm speaking generally as I don't know enough about your situation to comment.

I am sorry your daughter is suffering and of course you are very worried and trying to help.

If I was in your position, I'd have some counselling myself. I did this some years ago partly to help with problems in a close family relationship.

I would add the counselling did help. I began to see things from a different perspective and managed to achieve a bit of distance.

Good idea petallus. I think as mothers we can sometimes tie ourselves in knots trying to understand our children and their problems, and speaking personally, we sometimes feel too much responsibility for these things. Perhaps counselling could help to sort out these feelings.

I do feel for you lucyinthesky. There are similar mh issues in my family, and it's a long hard road

Thanks petallus. I have had counselling but it didn't help my worries over DD2. The only thing that would help is to see her recover from what is causing her such mental pain.

I see her suffering greatly and her behaviour is in no way normal in so far as many of us suffer with anxiety and other feelings of lack of self worth. It is an extreme level.

I do agree that giving her a 'mentally ill' label can let other members of the family 'off the hook' - DD1 says she empathises but is no real support as she has an 18 month old baby, husband and job which all take priority. DD2 yearns for a sister who understands.

However, brushing mental health issues under the carpet helps no-one. The more we are open about such problems the less they will be hidden and there would be no shame in admitting them.

lucyinthesky - your summary of BPD is a good one. Living with a loved one who is bpd is exhausting, all that egg shell treading in order to avoid a volcanic eruption. BPD is serious, the word 'borderline' can be misleading. Being at the borders of a number of personality disorders makes life difficult for the individual, and those who love and want to support them.

I agree that we all have personality stuff - but we don't all have BPD, thankfully. I'm sorry not to come up with a more positive response lucy, but I empathise with the difficulties you are living with

lucy I agree with everything you say. I have posted before that my mother had what was then called "a nervous breakdown" after my father left, when the three of us were little and in the 1950s she was treated with ECT. I now think she must have had mental health problems (anxiety etc) for most of her life, my poor mum. She never showed any signs of suffering from depression, she was always "up". She managed to raise three (relatively speaking!) normal children on her own.

As an aside, I was watching one of those "Escape to the Continent" TV shows the other night and one of the couples looking to buy a place in Spain was a dad and his adult daughter, they had a wonderful relationship. During the course of the programme it became clear that he was gay, his partner had recently died, and his daughter was most caring. Funny old world.

It seems that self harming is a major factor in BPD. So no, thankfully we don't all have it.

Thanks Iam64 I am not sure why they need to use the term borderline either.

What has frightened me more than anything is that my partner's wife here in France (before she died) suffered severely from this and was told that she'd never get any better. She didn't needless to say as she gave up hope, and he was on suicide watch with her 24/7 before she eventually succeeded.

I know I shouldn't let someone else's situation affect me and DD2 has promised that she doesn't feel suicidal, but I am not sure I really believe her that when she as at her bleakest moments it doesn't cross her mind. Her only saving grace is that she is holding down a job, which she loves, atm, but relationships are disasterville as she is seen as being very 'needy' something guys run away from.

Grannyknot my mother also had ECT - it was dreadful and I think exacerbated her narcissistic behaviour. It certainly didn't improve it. Well done your Mum for surviving as she did.

Thanks for 'listening' everyone.