Illness, mental and physical

stigma

Maybe it's because of the stigma attached and the fact that referring to someone being 'mental', 'mad' etc. is often used as an insult.

My ex used my mental health issues to keep me under control. He told me that if I left I'd lose my girls because no judge would give custody to a 'mad woman'.

People are afraid of being deemed different and admitting that we have mental health issues makes us different.

That is how it is commonly seen, vamp, but my point is that I don't see it like that at all. And people getting outraged (see the article I linked to) when someone says that someone with mental health problems is 'disturbed' and should see a doctor is what causes the stigmatising.

I'm probably not putting it very well, but we have to 'allow' people to have mental illnesses in exactly the same way as we allow, by accepting it, that people get pneumonia or whatever. And that in either case medical help would probably be a good idea.

We won't get rid of the stigma attached to mental health until we are more up front about it as something that just happens, like common colds and other infections.

Is it deemed offensive?

PS If you're ex used your mental health probs to be contolling, he had mental health probs as well.

Did you read the article, lucky?

Blast!!

your, not you're

The 'why' is what Vampirequeen said, suggesting someone has mental health issue can be given and received as an insult and we know why, we all have stories to tell. But I'm totally with you about mental health being the same as physical health. And I agree that we need to change society's understanding and get rid of the fears and stigma attached to mental illness. I fear it will be a long, hard road though...

Thank God he's your Ex, vq.
That bags, you can't "tell" someone to go to a psychiatrist unless they've got lots of money. They would have to see their GP, tho you probably mean people saying it in a derogatory way as in " you need to see a psychiatrist".
As you say, though, there has always been a stigma attached to it. Mental health services come under different trusts from local hospital trusts so the NHS has already created this division. all the time the general mentally healthy population goes on referring to nutters and mad people that stigma against them will persist. I don't know how we educate people to think differently. DH suffered a bad depression when he was at work but I didn't tell anyone. I have since worked in mental health and have talked with many different people with all kinds of conditions ranging from hypo mania, or bipolar, to OCD, schizophrenia and of course depressive conditions, which have many varieties. Most of us probably have some kind of "mental" I.e. " of the mind" problem. I know I get over anxious among other things, but have never needed medical help.
It DOES carry a stigma probably because of our fear and ignorance of mental health wellbeing. Maybe more people in the public eye talking about their condition, e.g. Stephen Fry, will go some way towards destigmatising it and in a way lessen our fear?

It is the same when Employers ask now on job applications if the applicant has had mental health issues but they don't ask if he/she has had pneumonia or the like. It leads to people hiding the truth and then falling to pieces when they have an episode because their job is then at risk.

I think it could be deemed offensive if Livingston was using it as a weapon to deride his opponent. I somehow doubt it was offered in the spirit of goodwill and genuine concern.

I don't want to bring politics into this but a classic situation is ongoing as we post.

Ken Livingstone has just been given a role on the Labour Defence Committee ? and Kevan Jones (shadow defence minister) made a comment about his credentials. Livingstone in return said he 'might need some psychiatric help'.

OK maybe tit for tat but all hell has broke loose as Kevan Jones was one of the 'cross bench' speakers debating mental health illness in Parliament and like others spoke of his personal problems with mental health issues. Livingstone refuses to apologise .

So using that scenario as an example whilst I do believe mental health illness at long last has an understanding by most of the public it is a fine line we all tread when mental health comments arise, such as Ken Livingstones, mental health is still viewed as some sort of insult and used in this context it is.

To abide by the OP , no I do not think it offensive to tell somebody to go to a doctor/psychiatrist but it is the 'context' of how it is said/implied I suppose.

I don't think it's offensive if the suggestion is made out of genuine concern but it is if used as an insult.

Politicians will be as offensive as they feel necessary to score over an opponent. That is the name of the game.

I used the political issue as an example not to score political points or make the thread political. I would have started a thread if I wanted to do that.

I used the scenario as a good example and the fact it was discussing politicians was simply to try and make a point how 'context' is the key.

BagsI think it is the context in which Ken Livingstone's comment were made.
If the Mirror account can be believed, Kevan Jones questioned whether Ken should be leading a review of Labour's defence policies. We don't know his exact words, or in what tone of voice he said them.

Ken retorted that he should 'see his GP' and then said to the Mirror that he(Kevan) should seek psychiatric help.

If that is what happened, then I don't think it's very professional to discuss a colleague's health, physical or mental, with a national newspaper.

It also sounds (although this is my interpretation, I admit) that Ken was using the need for psychiatric treatment as some type of slur.

Of course if he had suggested to Kevan Jones in private that he might benefit from seeing his psychiatrist, in a supportive way, that would not be offensive at all.

Sorry POGS I seem to have made the same point as you - I didn't see your post before posting mine.

I agree, pogs and jane with what you say if KL was deliberately rude. I think my worry is that many people seem to automatically assume stupid things about mental health and I agree with mollie, bnonna* and annsixty that we should tackle this. I think it's good that well known people who have had mental illness are speaking out and hopefully in time this will make a difference to stupid attitudes.

What I was also thinking is this: KL apparently said KJ was 'disturbed'. My immediate reaction to that was: Well, of course he is if he's ill! Illnesses can be very disturbing. I'd be 'disturbed' if I got any kind of serious illness.

In that context, ie said in public, it was offensive. Ken is too outspoken.
Whether mental illness and physical illness are separate - Some types are and some aren't, imo. eg bipolar disorder seems to be caused by chemical imbalance, which can be corrected with medication. Similarly some forms of depression. Like type 1 diabetes, sufferer will probably need to be on lifelong medication.
But there are some forms of schizophrenia which are difficult to treat and can result in very frightening and dangerous behaviour. Which is probably where the stigma comes from.
Or many of the drugs have unpleasant side effects, so people stop taking them.
There can't be many families where there isn't someone with some form of mental illness. It's in my family, and husband's.
The trouble it's a very broad complicated subject, and not much known about it in the general public.

In my own case - I have suffered from severe anxiety for many years due to life events - what has stopped me seeking help has always been the fact that I thought I should be able to cope on my own/be like everyone else. I have never wanted my DD to have a mother who is 'on medication because she can't cope'. On the other hand, few people in my life have had the childhood experiences that I have had (and I do realise some people go through worse). Then when more bad things happened in recent years I almost reached the end of my tether but somehow I am still here and still not on medication, although maybe I would have had an easier ride if I had been and I don't blame people who are.

Katyk, well done for being such an amazing coper. You must be doing really well to be able to do that. If the time ever came when you really needed help I'm sure you would know to seek it. You mentioned you haven't had a cold for decades ( on another thread) and maybe you could consider that as a reward for being so strong. Stay strong

What Anya says.

And if these were the words the KL actually to the Mirror
Mr Livingstone told the Mirror: “I think he might need some psychiatric help. He's obviously very depressed and disturbed.

“He should pop off and see his GP before he makes these offensive comments.”

that is not at all the same as having a quiet chat with the man in private. And not using those words!

What I was also thinking is this: KL apparently said KJ was 'disturbed'. My immediate reaction to that was: Well, of course he is if he's ill! Illnesses can be very disturbing. I'd be 'disturbed' if I got any kind of serious illness

A mind being disturbed because a person cannot think straight, is quite quite different to being disturbed about the situation you are in. I think KL unfortunately meant the former, rather than the latter.

How lovely of you Bella. That amost made me tearful. Thank you. Some lovely people on here.