Independent living?!

Tray, thanks for that 'Many would choose an earlier demise in their own home than residential care.'

this is exactly how I feel. I am fully aware this is very different for me here- a/ becausewe have excellent OAP care - you pay until money runs out, and then the State picks up the tab, and leave you with about 30.000 to give your kids.
but b/ we have the choice to Die with Dignity when we feel that enough is enough and we can't live independently or as we wish. I so hope our British friends will soon have that choice too.

The key is to get organised early if you want to be cared for at home - think ahead and make adjustments to your home, be it a walk-in shower, a rail, a ramp, a stair lift, etc, etc- and think about how to get the necessary staff and meals in, etc, so that a plan is ready more or less to be put into action, with friends, family or whatever support. Once things go wrong- it is often too late to get organised.

The main issue- even with laws that allow you to make choices re the end of life - is still Alzheimers and Dementia.
Even in Switzerland, even if you are a long-term member of EXIT, and even if you have made a very precise end of life plan and registered your wishes - you have to be compus mentis at the time of the deed.

This is a great shame, as it puts huge pressures on people to request help to die at too early a stage of either the above- to ensure you are able to show that you are fully compus mentis. When people could actually continue to live an excellent quality of life for a long time, for some, even if getting a bit doolally. Enjoying seeing family and friends, watching the birds and listening to them, feeling the joy of the sun on your face, and the company of a pet, listening to music, etc, etc. However, you can't take the risk to wait once the diagnosis made- as once you have crossed THAT threshold- it is too late. We have discussed this at length with OH, as we are both members of EXIT- and our decisions are made.

This may be shocking to some of you- and I am sorry. But it is OUR decision- and let's hope we have many many years to enjoy. People should talk to partners and family and friends about death, and what if...

Bonne chance.

Yes, dementia could easily mess up the best laid plans.

I remember not so long ago Melvyn Bragg talking or writing about a parent with dementia, and saying that if he ever got it, he'd make his own way out of it.

I wasn't sure he knew all that much about dementia if he really thought he'd be able to do that. From long and.close experience of two relatives with dementia, people may well truly believe there's nothing wrong with them - because they can't remember that they can't remember anything, if that makes sense.

So that even if you had a stash of pills hidden away, and had resolved to use them, when the time came you would very likely have a) forgotten where you'd hidden them, b) have forgotten that you had them in the first place, or c) that you'd ever resolved to do such a thing at all.

On a different care-related tack, over the years I've heard so often of stressed and exhausted relatives of people with dementia, saying that despite the fact that they're on their knees, they can't put their mum in a care home 'because I promised her years ago that I never would.'

That at least is one promise we can refrain from extracting from our children, and indeed I think it can border on selfishness to do so, when none of really knows what level of care we may need in future, or how difficult and demanding
we may become once we've lost the ability to think of anyone but ourselves.

Lottagelady you are so right.so many MPs have their hands in our tills. If we look at the totality of what is happening to our country it is ideology. The government is there to manage us but they see us as a cash cow. When will we wake up. Thank goodness my grandchildren are intelligent AND understand what is happening and will strive for change. They don’t trust the bbc or newspapers but it is difficult for our generation to have our perceptions challenged.

Blimey paranoia settling in I see Blueskies!
Witzend- excellent idea to avoid putting our children under obligation to look after us come what may. I've already apologised in advance to DD just in case I become as difficult and awkward as some of the elderly people I know became. I dread being a burden. DS has always said he'd put me in a cheap home at the first sign of bother from me! (No such thing!)

Just wondering Jane 10 how you define paranoia in respect of my post. It is difficult and can be scary to be confronted by a world view which is other than ones own. It can be easier to let things go rather than try to understand what is really going on. We now have the internet and our newer generations will not be so easily bamboozled. We have a beautiful world out there and it belongs equally to all of us.we have a fundamental right to be treated with dignity and care whatever our age or disability.

Maybe Jane10 is an MP ;)

Allule wrote ‘It seems blindingly obvious that where homes and care services are run for profit, there will be less to spend on carers and facilities.‘

Exactly! These homes are being run for profit by those who have an eye for business. Why oh why can’t LA’s take back control of this sector and provide good, monitored care? Then instead of the money going into the pockets of certain people it can be used to provide the care that’s actually needed.

Why not try reading the OP?
The world is indeed a beautiful place but can be a hard one for the ageing population. This thread has been to discuss the various options available and includes all sorts of negatives but also some very positive examples of good practice. No conspiracy theories here.

Sadly Jane the fact that that there are only ‘some very positives examples of good practice’ speaks volumes.

None of us know how we will end our days. I’ve read somewhere that only 20% will need residential care, but that figure probably masks those sitting alone and desperate in their own homes with inadequate care packages.

The reasons that people would rather tough it out in their own homes are complicated. Many have pets which would have to be rehomed or otherwise disposed of. Then there’s the expense of care and the fear of being completely at the mercy of the ‘care’ system. That includes the complete lack of control over your own life. Those who own their own property would ideally like to leave their house to their children.

All these factors contribute towards preferring staying in your own home and retaining an illusion of some independence and dignity.

Probably (apart from some shocking bullies in the news) all carers do their best. But when my neighbor was on the floor for over an hour waiting for the mandatory ambulance, and his carer who found him wasn't allowed to leave till the ambulance got there even though by then I was also on the scene, she must have left at least 4 other elderly vulnerable people stranded in bed waiting for her to come and help them get up. And this is unacceptable for those people as it has probably made them feel even more vulnerable and alone than they already did.

What I am saying is that cuts are having a knock on effect everywhere. The ambulance took over an hour because there are not enough to go around and half of those that exist are sitting outside hospitals because they can't unload their patients due to lack of hospital capacity and staff to care for them.

This is the scenario I was trying to explain up thread readymeals . My late grandmas carer would ring me to tell me to “come quick” because my grandma had fallen or was ill etc. And she would have to wait until I got there before she could leave, meaning that some poor old soul missed their slot.

As I see it, all they have to do is increase hospital capacity and staffing levels and the entire chain of health care below hospital will be able to function properly again. Also bring back convalescent wards to get the elderly-but-well (awaiting care packages) out of the medical wards into somewhere staffed by auxilliaries and care staff.

If only someone had had the foresight to keep cottage hospitals which could have been reinvented as convalescent homes.....

My Granny was moved to a convalescent home after surgery. That system worked well. So, naturally, it was closed down
There used to be a variety of sort of step down hospitals that freed up acute beds but provided the sort of care that patients needed before discharge.
It would be better if people could be prevented from becoming 'patients' due to poor home care. How many admissions are due to falls, malnutrition, not taking meds etc as insufficient care available to prevent this situation?

Jura, well said!
www.dignityindying.org.uk/about-us/

I'm a long time subscriber.

The only reasoned support for not bringing in legislation is what a retired geriatrician claimed to be the case which is that without legislation doctors have more freedom to choose what's best for the patient and can and do administer lethal medication.

OldMeg wrote:
"Many have pets which would have to be rehomed or otherwise disposed of. "

The RSPCA operates a scheme for rehoming deceased people's pets.You just need to register your pet with them. Elderly dogs are often popular for rehoming.

Totally agree with Jura and those who advocate forward planning.
Easy access (no steps) is essential. My late parents lived in a house with a beautiful view across a river to the hills,but both front and rear access involved steps (24 at the front, 12 at the back) and Mum could only leave carried by paramedics when she would have one of her many falls. Even Dad who was mobile got unsteady on his feet, but would he give up on his lovely view? Never!
Safe movement inside, grab rails, walk in shower, loos on each floor, all of these.
Latterly I realised that our gravel drive was a complete no no when Paw needed a wheelchair, but in the end time did not permit.
My point is that if any decisions are made early enough you retain the feeling of choice and of independence. Whether that is downsizing or adapting the home you may not wish to leave you remain in the driving seat. Even the decision to move closer to children or ultimately to sheltered accommodation , however hard, is “easier” if you can choose your timing. But of course few of us see it that way.
Waiting until it is forced on you is a whole different matter.
Of course what you can afford is crucial, but perhaps buying in some help early can make it possible to retain an element of independence, if one’s health permits.
No easy answers, no difficult one either

If only someone had had the foresight to keep cottage hospitals which could have been reinvented as convalescent homes..... I agree Blinko - but there are a few still surviving, a relative of mine recently spent several weeks in one.

Good post jura and a lot to ponder on.

Glad to hear that, Jalima. Common sense has prevailed in some places, it seems.

I don't know for how much longer though!

You are so right about forward planning MawBroon. My mother was very resistant to discussing any changes to her home or moving to easier accommodation, even after she nursed my father in front room until he died. I think she thought she would live healthily for ever. Consequently she ended up falling from top to bottom of stairs (probably when dopey from meds for severe pain). She has never walked since and now needs a lot of care in a house which is totally unsuitable. I think that in our culture we don't readily relish considering old age because there is such a worry and stigma attached to it, often burying our heads in the sand. We think we can stave off the evil day by healthy eating, exercise, using wonder creams on our bodies and ignoring the fact of ageing but it is inevitable, unless death waylays us prematurely. It is better to accept the fact and plan ahead practically for when it happens, and then embrace and enjoy the rest of your life.

Yes. All we can do is plan for the worst but hope for the best. Time will tell...

Alexa it is firstly about that old person being separated from their long time pet. That can cause unbearable pain and misery for both.

And as someone who is active in rehoming dogs I assure you it isn’t easy to rehome an elderly dog. Firstly many balk at the potential veterinary fees involved in caring for an older animal. Secondly many of them, we discover have never had a chance to develop a relationship with children or other pets so that’s a real issue. Finally often these pets are not reliably housetrained as elderly owners may lack the ability to let their pet out and have to wait for their carers to do this.

So often we get these older dogs returned after a week or so as they find it hard to adjust to life in a normal household.