No jab no job

Here is the reply from someone involved in the collating and use of the data coming in re. Covid and the vaccination programme.

suziewoozie I would never criticise those who refuse vaccination, for most that is a personal choice, but choices can have consequences and allowing someone who is not vaccinated against COVID, a highly infectious disease, for any reason, including an involuntary one, to then work with people who are hyper vulnerable to the disease and more likely to be severely ill and die if they get it, to me is completely unacceptable.

M0nica

suziewoozie I would never criticise those who refuse vaccination, for most that is a personal choice, but choices can have consequences and allowing someone who is not vaccinated against COVID, a highly infectious disease, for any reason, including an involuntary one, to then work with people who are hyper vulnerable to the disease and more likely to be severely ill and die if they get it, to me is completely unacceptable.

I get all that - that isn’t what I was talking about at all. I was talking about the potential for demonisation of unvaccinated people and how as a society instead of saying you’re sacked, we think of ways to engage with them in the first instance.

Difficult, this one.
I was delighted to be offered a jab, even before I expected it.
It’s strange that there’s an objection to this possibly by some people who accept the obligation to have vaccines when their holiday destination demands them.

I’m fine with a suggestion on here that if you don’t want the jab, don’t apply to the job which demands it for new employees.
However I’m uneasy about any coercion.

Aren't people engaging with them? There have been a stream of iniatives aimed at those who have been worried by fake news about side effects. Well known people from every background have been filmed having the jab and talking about it in many languages.

If anyone started a scheme for one to one counselling they would immediately be accused of brainwashing and coercing people. No one has yet said they would sack any staff who did not have the jab, although a number have said it will be a prerequisite when they advertise for staff in the future.

I am not sure what else can be done. What would you suggest?

It’s strange that there’s an objection to this possibly by some people who accept the obligation to have vaccines when their holiday destination demands them.

Yes, and part of me wonders if it would be better to start with something like holiday travel - no jab, no holiday - before moving onto more life-changing exclusions such as jobs. On the other hand though, putting exclusions in place for purely punitive reasons shouldn't be what this is about.

I agree that reaching out should be a starting point, but then what? If people won't listen, or listen but still refuse to be vaccinated, why should we put vulnerable people who have no choice in the matter at risk?

In the past we had leper colonies for unfortunates who (through no fault of their own) put people at risk of catching leprosy, and people with Plague painted crosses on their doors to warn visitors against coming into contact inadvertently. Very harsh, but deemed necessary to protect the population.

Asking people to be vaccinated is nothing like that. I totally understand the civil liberties objections, and as I've said, I'm normally first in the queue to bang the freedom drum, but this is one of those cases where one person's freedom not to vaccinate steps on the freedom of another not to die.

All that is being asked is that the unvaccinated do not work with those most vulnerable to the disease. It seems a small and reasonable ask.

And if those living in care homes refuse to be vaccinated what do you do then. It as never as simple as all that is being asked.

There’s very little evidence that is happening though Galaxy is there? The reason identified by Public Health Wales as to why there are still about 15% unvaccinated in care homes in Wales is that in homes where there have been outbreaks, they don’t vaccinate for 20 days after the last case is identified. Where I live the vaccination rate is now 94%. There will though always be a small percentage in care homes who are not suitable to be vaccinated.

M0nica

All that is being asked is that the unvaccinated do not work with those most vulnerable to the disease. It seems a small and reasonable ask.

Depending on how it’s done - there’s an awful example given on here of what looks like just abuse of power.

But when introducing laws you have to look at the ripple effect. There will be residents in care home who dont want to be vaccinated, in the same way there will be children with safeguarding concerns, who are unvaccinated who need to attend school. We need to be careful with the decisions we make and the speed with which we make them. I think those the vaccine conspiracy theories are ridiculous and damaging beyond words. But I am also concerned about creating a culture where people think they have the right to ask people about private medical information (I dont mean employers I mean Joe Public) and I can already see signs of that happening. The impact of that on those witb disabilities will not be good.

Sorry terrible typos.

And French people aren’t keen on being vaccinated anyway Galaxy are they? I read somewhere that 40% of. french people won’t be taking up on the vaccination offer. No wonder Macron can virtue signal that he’s giving away 5% of all vaccines from the get go.

Galaxy

But when introducing laws you have to look at the ripple effect. There will be residents in care home who dont want to be vaccinated, in the same way there will be children with safeguarding concerns, who are unvaccinated who need to attend school. We need to be careful with the decisions we make and the speed with which we make them. I think those the vaccine conspiracy theories are ridiculous and damaging beyond words. But I am also concerned about creating a culture where people think they have the right to ask people about private medical information (I dont mean employers I mean Joe Public) and I can already see signs of that happening. The impact of that on those witb disabilities will not be good.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks this is a simple problem with a simple solution just isn’t thinking quite frankly.

Urmstongran

And French people aren’t keen on being vaccinated anyway Galaxy are they? I read somewhere that 40% of. french people won’t be taking up on the vaccination offer. No wonder Macron can virtue signal that he’s giving away 5% of all vaccines from the get go.

The latest polling in France shows a larger % who are willing to be vaccinated now and amongst those showing hesitancy they express it less negatively. I was surprised though when I learned a few weeks ago about their general attitude towards vaccination and their relatively low uptake of the flu jab.

I wish I was in France at the moment. I miss it and the French people.

Oh * Galaxy* moi aussi tellement ??

Well that’s more encouraging news sw about the French resistance to vaccines.

I wish I were in the Malaga sunshine but I’m grateful to be here with the quicker roll out vaccination programme. Not one of my Spanish neighbours (registered residents) have been offered a jab yet - and 5 of them are well into their 80’s. They are quite concerned, especially when they watch our news and see how far on we are.

Sorry, back to the thread.

suziewoozie what about all the current initatives I have listed above? of course there will be examples of bad practice, name me any interaction in ordinary life that does not happen in.

Any thoughts on whether visitors to hospital (at a time when it's possible) should have to show proof of being vaccinated?

As I mentioned before my French and Italian friends are quite concerned when I tell them I’ve had the Oxford AZ. Over there it has only be recommended for the under 65 and 55 respectively. This could partly explain why they are so slow compared to the UK. I’m quite happy and grateful.

My brother in Germany doesn’t want the Pfizer jab after something he read in the German press. He’s watching to see if it affects me.

BlueSky, Here is a link to an article in the British Medical Journal discussing this German report and why the organisation circulating the news misinterpreted the statistics. www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n414

It is strange how when misintepreted or malicious data is published, it is what people remember, whereas when the correct data or interepretation is published, everybody ignores it and sticks to the incorrect interpretation.

A

M0nica unfortunately their leaders have believed such reports. Even the younger age group now believes the AZ is a second class vaccine. As I said I’ve been more than happy to have it at 70+.

M0nica

Grannyrose15 Could you quantify your statement Vaccination is totally unnecessary for large swathes of the population.?

A few links to reputable peer reviewed research would be helpful.

Oh come on! How many times do you have to be told that the virus is only dangerous to the old and sick. The average age of death is over 80 FGS.

Vaccinating vast numbers of people for whom it causes only mild symptoms is UNETHICAL.

It is this hysteria that is causing more damage than the actual disease.