Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

Seriously. .The first time you ever heard that? And you spend time discussing this on sm?

Well to be fair, this is the only platform I am a part of where this type of discussion is happening. My other feeds are very pro trans and I've never heard it mentioned there.

It is not normal for me to look for extreme views and catagorise them as representing an entire demographic. I know that's an easy way to get sucked into engaging in extreme thinking for some.

Thank you for answering my question directly with no avoidance.

It is a well publicised view that is causing extreme disquiet amongst the homosexual communities. I’m sure you must have heard of the LGB movement that is seeking to re-establish itself as separate to the LGBQT+ movement because of this and other issues. Again well publicised. Such as male intact trans who are pressuring young lesbians into sex with them by accusing them of transphobia.

These issues have been highlighted by the homosexual community many times over the last year.

There have been demonstrations about these issues, not only I. britain but in many countries worldwide, so I don’t think you can say it is just a minority view in the trans communities.

It is a strongly expressed agenda.

You might have seen on the news recently the young man wearing an LGB T-shirt who was jostled and harassed at a rally and had to be given police protection.

The Twitter feeds following this were full of gay eradication tweets from the trans community.

This is just another thread saying that science is wrong unless it matches what the OP thinks.
Another thread saying or implying that women’s rights are not eroded by the demands of some TW who feel that:
-even having the physical advantages that reaching puberty as a male doesn’t erode women’s rights in sport
-even whilst remaining physically male, but having declared themselves women, they think they should be allowed into natal women’s safe spaces
-that they can take natal women’s jobs because the TW feels he is a woman
I can’t think how many threads there have been recently where this point of view, has been promoted in a variety of disguises.
I’m a feminist who supports the rights of natal women. I don’t deny trans the right to change gender, even on a day to day basis, but feminism that works agains the rights and needs of natal women is an anomaly.

I am sure there are reasons why some LGB people would reject trans people but like cis people rejecting trans people, I'm not sure it's always for the right reasons honestly.

There are still many many groups that include trans and hopefully those groups would not let their members discriminate against each other. I'd not support any group that did so.

I’m glad to hear it.

Myself I can’t support any section of society that wants to see another, different from themselves, eradicated.

I find it frightening, And even more frightening that good people just can’t believe that it’s happening and will close their eyes and ears to what they don’t want to hear.

To begin with the LGBQT+ community we’re at one. It is the trans in that community that began the call for LGB to be eradicated. The rejection came from them.

Discrimination has always been a part of the human race. Many people won't stop until it is eradicated and that includes many trans people. That must be recognised and respected.

Just one of many trans only groups TENI (Trans equality network Ireland) have their mission statement Our mission is to advance the rights and equality, and improve the lives of trans people and their families. So the LBG community is not in their brief, yet the LGB alliance get slammed for not including the T. Double standards or what? Feminism was about equal rights for females ie women, what a shame so many women don't want to have anything that's just for women, and go so far as to want to deny that right to other women.

VioletSky said @ 21.43: Feminism is about everyone having equal rights and opportunities, that includes all genders so of course feminism should protect trans people.

But on another thread said "I'm afraid you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party".

As these 2 statements contradict each other, perhaps you could clarify which one you think is correct?

Not meant to bring info from other threads in Chewbacca. Against the GN rules.

GagaJo

Not meant to bring info from other threads in Chewbacca. Against the GN rules.

Gagajo that comment was about grandparents getting rights to access grandchildren taking away the parents rights.

I did reply to say that trans people already have rights and that some do not want to allow them

Against GN rules, thanks for that info. I didn’t know. If two statements by the same person directly contradict each other then it’s worth asking for clarification on which one is true and which one isn’t, don’t you think?
Or maybe not. The truth is perhaps whatever is said at the time and can change like gender.

I've already clarified what I said, trans people already have rights and are protected by our British values of individual liberty, tolerance and respect.

If you want to use what I say on a completely different subject against me that is absolutely your call but in my view it's a very dishonest way to have a discussion

Not meant to bring info from other threads in Chewbacca. Against the GN rules.

So report it? Feel free.

vs in my view it's a very dishonest way to have a discussion why? Surely someone with such firm views and convictions on the matter would be perfectly comfortable with being able to explain why they make 2 such polarising statements. Either you believe Feminism is about everyone having equal rights and opportunities, that includes all genders so of course feminism should protect trans people. or you believe "^I'm afraid you can't give rights to anyone without^ taking them away from the other party"

The subject matter of those rights is totally irrelevant. So which is it?

Gagajo congratulations on one of the bravest threads I've seen.
As a lifelong feminist with interests in the history of feminism I really resent all this feminist pretence currently making headlines.

As for the parallels between the pro-life and the gender critical movement the biggest I see is the failure to acknowledge individual choice and to impose preconceptions.

Some of the gay community and the transcommunity have been at odds for many years. Being gay does not automatically mean you can't be prejudiced and nor does being trans. There are biased individuals in every walk of life.

I do find the way the gender critical and anti-trans posters on GN demand answers to their questions unacceptable and there is certainly nothing feminist about it. It's good old patriachal intimidation and domination.

Chewbacca femism and trans issues has nothing to do with grandparents rights (which they don't have in the UK) . Totally different topics.

If I felt my rights as a woman were being eroded by trans people I'd certainly be fighting against it. I just don't think that.

If I see anything that changes my mind I will let you know.

Apart from that, I have a very exciting day tomorrow and a lot of prep to do. So I won't be here and you shouldn't take my silence as any kind of win.

Hmmm.. so your stance on "rights" depends entirely on who, or what, they're for and are therefore inter changeable? And you view discussing this as "winning" or "losing"? Not a good indication of reasoned debate.

Wouldn't it be nice if the gender critical could address the question and stop targetting individual posters.

It tends to happen mainly where an "individual poster" makes statements that either cannot be substantiated or makes statements that completely contradict a previously made statement and clarification is requested.

So is one of the statements true and the other not?

Chewbacca

It tends to happen mainly where an "individual poster" makes statements that either cannot be substantiated or makes statements that completely contradict a previously made statement and clarification is requested.

Not requested demanded.
It's possible to post about more than one thing you know.

Of course it's possible to post about more than one thing trisher! No one, as far as I can see, would disagree with that. But something as fundamental as to whether you believe that all sections of society, including gay, trans, ethnic minorities or grandparents etc having "rights" doesn't vary from group to group. But if you said you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party you'd be admitting that one of those groups would have to move over/accept less than another group to accommodate them. And, as the very point of these discussions is about how some of the trans community are eroding natal women's rights, it's valid that a juxtaposition of 2 statements is questioned.

Chewbacca

Of course it's possible to post about more than one thing trisher! No one, as far as I can see, would disagree with that. But something as fundamental as to whether you believe that all sections of society, including gay, trans, ethnic minorities or grandparents etc having "rights" doesn't vary from group to group. But if you said you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party you'd be admitting that one of those groups would have to move over/accept less than another group to accommodate them. And, as the very point of these discussions is about how some of the trans community are eroding natal women's rights, it's valid that a juxtaposition of 2 statements is questioned.

I see Still harping on about individuals and no attempt to address the OP. I'm leaving it there. You obviously just want to argue with someone-anyone.

The point of this discussion is how the pro-life individuals resemble the gender critical. Can I add the two names are similar, both mask bias and restrictive beliefs under acceptable titles. If we are worrying about language pro-life should be a term feminists abhor. It masks a belief that women are just baby-carriers and as such should surrender their rights to a foetus that has no possibility of life without them
Gender critical likewise masks real bias towards transpeople often expressed as "I have nothing against them but....."

OK so I couldn't resist a quick look.

The problem is Chewbacca that you are taking what I said out of context. Probably helped along by your personal feelings towards me.

Think back to the main points I made on that thread.

As things stand grandparents do not have a right to go to court in the UK for visitation with the grandchildren, they only have leave to apply to go to court which may not be granted. To be granted the grandparents must prove a close bond, that they are safe and that going to court will not harm the grandchildren. This ensures children like mine are protected from abusive people.

Another poster brought up that in the EU, grandparents do have the right to go to court (well actually she said they have a right to visitation which isn't true).

It's not just grandparents in the EU, anyone has the right to go to court to see these children, aunts, uncles great grandparents etc.

Yet, me and many others have abusive parents so do not want that right gained over here. Many parents want to spend time with their own children and not have their lives dictated by other family members. Especially abusive ones.

Context is everything.

Let's come back to this conversation:

I have often made points that women should not lose safe spaces or be made to feel unsafe so we must reach a compromise.

This is so that no ones rights are harmed.

Not the rights of women and not the rights of trans people. rights both groups already have under law

Apples and Oranges.