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Transgender people who start hormones as teenagers rather than adults 'have better mental health’

(493 Posts)
GagaJo Wed 12-Jan-22 19:49:33

Transgender people who start their hormones as teenagers have “far better” mental health than if they wait until adulthood, new research says.

Experts have found that transgender people who begin hormone treatment in adolescence had fewer suicidal thoughts, were less likely to experience major mental health disorders and had fewer problems with substance abuse than those who started hormones later in life.

The study, which was led by the Stanford University School of Medicine, gathered data from the largest-ever survey of US transgender adults where 27,715 people responded in 2015.

Researchers found that, as well as fewer mental health concerns when taking the drugs as teenagers, those who took the drugs at any age had better mental health than those who wanted them but had never received them.

Of the people surveyed, 21,598 reported they had received the hormones they wanted. Of these people, 119 began hormones at age 14 or 15; 362 at age 16 and 17 and 12,157 following their 18th birthday.

Some 8,860 people surveyed said they wanted but never received hormone therapy and acted as the control group for the study.

Odds of severe psychological distress were reduced by 222 per cent, 153 per cent and 81 per cent for those who began hormones in early adolescence, late adolescence and adulthood, respectively.

Odds of feeling suicidal in the previous year were 135 per cent lower in those who began hormones in early adolescence, 62 per cent lower in those who began in late adolescence and 21 per cent lower in those who began as adults, compared with the control group.

Dr Jack Turban, lead author on the study and expert in paediatric and adolescent psychiatry at Stanford Medicine, said: “This study is particularly relevant now because many state legislatures are introducing bills that would outlaw this kind of care for transgender youth.

“We are adding to the evidence base that shows why gender-affirming care is beneficial from a mental health perspective.”

In the UK, hormone drugs can only be given to people from the age of 16 who have been on puberty blockers for at least 12 months.

Last September, the UK Court of Appeal overturned a judgment that children under the age of 16 considering gender reassignment were unlikely to be mature enough to give informed consent to be prescribed puberty-blocking drugs.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/transgender-hormones-teenager-mental-health-b1991724.html

VioletSky Sat 15-Jan-22 12:17:46

Galaxy

Then it would be helpful if you could specify who you are talking about rather than making sweeping statements. I would not say those who arent gender critical on the thread are racists for example.
I would say that was a racist remark 'Billy'.
It means people can make any claims they like, and these claims often are not just true.

Galaxy we are reading the same thread and the same comments, I'm sure you can differentiate between who thinks this study is not comprehensive enough or not fact based enough and who doesn't without me tagging a list of names or isolating one unfairly.

It's not a sweeping statement to address ideas I don't agree with as it is not accusing everyone of having those ideas

trisher Sat 15-Jan-22 12:20:52

Galaxy

Sorry but everyone knew. Women pretended in order to be kind.

It's never been just women. There have always been women who lived as men. But that does show how ill informed some people are. And some of the people had to die before they were discovered.

trisher Sat 15-Jan-22 12:23:23

Here are some who made history blogs.loc.gov/headlinesandheroes/2021/03/women-who-dressed-as-men-and-made-history/
There would be loads who just lived quiet unrecorded lives

Galaxy Sat 15-Jan-22 12:23:39

You said that people were putting themselves first, it has also been said (not by you) on this thread that there is an orchestrated and deliberate approach to silence trans people and that we are operating a cancel culture. I am going to keep challenging statements like those and its going to be really irritating grin

Galaxy Sat 15-Jan-22 12:29:26

Yes so ill informed that those issues were discussed on MN years ago. How women had to circumvent the patriarchy in order to achieve what they wanted in a deeply Male dominated society. And that hopefully we have made enough progress now that people dont use the 'dresses as a man' phrase.

Mollygo Sat 15-Jan-22 12:32:46

Oh dear. GJ
Cancel culture? Your new phrase. So when you go on ad nauseam trying to shut posters up who don’t recognise ‘your truth’ that isn’t cancel culture?
Evidence of cancel culture, in the way it is being applied AHF being applied to trans? Still waiting for that.
Also still waiting for which of your statements is true about hormones being given to teens, which was the OP and then contradicted in a later claim.
Is ignoring posters cancel culture I wonder?

Rosie51 Sat 15-Jan-22 12:33:20

GagaJo

Exactly trisher. Historically, those menwomen walked among us and we were unaware that being a man or a woman was a choice for them. Now, some of them are out of the closet. No real difference, other than their being open now.

Transwomen with complete male bodies have always used women's facilities, been housed on female hospital wards and in female prisons, been admitted to communal areas when people are in a state of undress, competed in sports? I don't think so. Of course there have always been people who wished to live their lives as the opposite sex, but because they were respectful of 'private' spaces they didn't encounter hostility in those areas. I would expect most of us will have encountered at least once a 'woman' in the ladies toilets who was being as unobtrusive as possible, and we were happy to go along with that.

Rosie51 Sat 15-Jan-22 12:34:59

I took a phone call between typing and posting. I see you'd already made the point Galaxy.

GagaJo Sat 15-Jan-22 12:35:31

Mollygo, I haven't got the interest to go on ad nauseum on trans threads, because the gender-critical dominance just bores me.

VioletSky Sat 15-Jan-22 12:38:01

Galaxy

You said that people were putting themselves first, it has also been said (not by you) on this thread that there is an orchestrated and deliberate approach to silence trans people and that we are operating a cancel culture. I am going to keep challenging statements like those and its going to be really irritating grin

OK

Doodledog Sat 15-Jan-22 12:39:58

Ok, if you want to look at this thread on this forum, let's do it.
Below are edited highlights of this thread. I have concentrated on exchanges between you (GagaJo) and me, although there are numerous examples of attempts at silencing coming from other TRAs on the thread. Had I included all of them the post would have exceeded the attention span of 'some people', so I kept it (relatively) short.

First, the OP - a summary of a research project carried out by Jack Turban as the study’s lead author, and Alex Keuroghlian as the senior author. Keuroghlian is an MD, associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and director of the National LGBTQIA+ Health Education Center at the Fenway Institute.
My first comment is to question the validity of the research, based on the obvious flaws in the information provided, even though it is a summary.

Your response (GagaJo)
'But of course, naysayers will be negative.'

I ask how you can make sweeping statements about 'the students you've had who could talk about their feelings, compared to the ones who could not', and the numbers you are talking about, and it turns out that it is 4. Three at one school, although you only taught one, and one at another. So, two you've known well?

Your reply was accompanied by a dig suggesting (erroneously, as you have zero knowledge of my career) that I prefer 'paperwork' to helping the students. When you were pulled on this by another poster, you persisted in this accusation.

You then pick up on comments about this being a complex matter best left to those who know what they are doing, with 'leave this to the experts' (your quote marks).

I comment that dismissing experts is populist, and you twist this to say that I said that support for the trans movement is populist, and dragged in feminism and gay rights, to suggest that I would not support those causes . When I pointed out your attempt at spin you ignored me and did not retract.

You claim (based on Googled statistics, of which you say there are many) that 1 in 4 transpeople have attempted suicide, and more than 80% have considered it.

When questioned on the validity of this (complete with figures given by posters and concerns about the baseline for measuring these numbers) you attempt to shut us up with 'oh, I don't want to argue' with the implication that those picking up on the huge errors in what you are saying are doing so for sport. You also suggest that I withdraw from the discussion (cancellation?)

When I refuse to withdraw, you draw up rules of engagement. No 'arguing, unpleasantness or demands' - all defined by you (eg a 'demand' can be any request for clarification, or a reminder that a post has been ignored).

Then more accusations of 'silencing, hostility and attempts to shut up TRAs'. Oh, and anyone speaking out against you is bullying.

When people (several) ask not to be referred to as 'cis' your response is to silence our requests with 'don't read the posts if they upset you', as though that were possible when they don't come in sealed envelopes with 'Offensive Content' warnings.

After attempting to control speech all the way through the thread, you say (of posts that simply question what you are saying) 'this attempt to control the speech of others is cancel culture', and 'The gender critical shut debate down time and time again.' Ironic in the extreme, particularly when you accuse Rosie of diversionary tactics ?. This, from someone who writes incendiary posts to which people take time to respond, then calls any requests for clarification of what has been said 'demands', and refuses to engage.

Finally (at the time of writing) you suggest that anyone disagreeing with you is not behaving like an adult, but is guilty of 'Cancel culture. Shut(ting) it down. Causing arguments and unpleasantness.'

Phew! Can you honestly say, in the face of that, that it is so-called 'gender critical' posters who are trying to shut down debate?

VioletSky Sat 15-Jan-22 12:48:43

I can doodledog and the answer is "yes"

But I can't explain why or I will be "playing victim"

trisher Sat 15-Jan-22 12:50:57

Galaxy

Sorry but everyone knew. Women pretended in order to be kind.

I've just rethought this and not is it a sweeping statement it is one of the most dismissive and sexist comments I have ever read. It's the reason women like Caster Semenya have been subjected to constant testing because other women athletes complained they looked like men. It's not only sexist it's racist because black women's bodies differ from white women's. The concept that you can just tell by looking is one everyone interested in equality dumped some time ago.

Doodledog Sat 15-Jan-22 12:53:44

GagaJo

Exactly trisher. Historically, those menwomen walked among us and we were unaware that being a man or a woman was a choice for them. Now, some of them are out of the closet. No real difference, other than their being open now.

Of course there was a difference. As just one example, those participating in women's sport were women. Women therefore had a chance of winning, and a transwoman attempting to cheat her way onto the podium would be disqualified to mass opprobrium.

Doodledog Sat 15-Jan-22 12:55:01

VioletSky

I can doodledog and the answer is "yes"

But I can't explain why or I will be "playing victim"

What would you be playing victim if you answered a simple question?

VioletSky Sat 15-Jan-22 12:57:12

Lol

Galaxy Sat 15-Jan-22 12:58:15

That's not what happened to caster semenya. It really isnt. We have discussed this before. The decision was made because CS has one of five conditions which do not allow CS to participate in womens sports.

Doodledog Sat 15-Jan-22 13:02:43

trisher, if that is one of the most sexist and dismissive comments you have ever read, I wonder what you are reading? Maybe if you read about some of the things that are said to lesbians by TRAs who want their autogynephilia to be satisfied by having sex with someone who 'fancies' women, you would think again.

You often post about Caster Semenya, and whilst I take your word that she has had a very rough time, and that there is (on the face of it) no reason why she should not be able to live her life as she chooses, maybe given the circumstances she might have been better to tread a different path? To keep putting herself forward for testing could be seen as perverse. Life doesn't always work out the way we want it to, and there are times when the needs of one person have to come after the needs of large numbers. As CS seems to be an anomaly, I would suggest that this is one of those times, and that to throw the chances of all female athletes away so that she can fulfil her potential is a step too far.

Rosie51 Sat 15-Jan-22 13:02:50

Ah but Galaxy if you repeat something often enough it becomes accepted as a truth. Trump employed that tactic with a degree of success.

trisher Sat 15-Jan-22 13:03:02

Doodledog can you explain to me why it is OK for you to target one poster with your remarks and yet pull in another posters comments when it suits you?.

Why not insead look at the discussion as a whole? So for the question of cis women you have been asked "what do you want?" It seems you want the impossible, well you really can't blame the rest of us if you don't get it. And that's really shutting it down isn't it. No one can give you the impossible so just try focusing what is posssible and perhaps there is compromise somewhere. But the idea that woman has always just meant people who were born women is just wrong, it never has, it never will. No matter how much you legislate (and there have been societies who have attempted to eliminate what they saw as deviant) there will always be people whose birth gender doesn't match their chosen gender. They are simply now more open about it.

Doodledog Sat 15-Jan-22 13:04:08

VioletSky

Lol

Helpful.

Mollygo Sat 15-Jan-22 13:06:41

Re your post DD. The answer will be no, or an excuse for not explaining, or you will be given a convoluted explanation that doesn’t explain, called dodging the issue. Read the political posts for examples of this.
Since I have read two conflicting posts from the same poster with no explanation of which is true . . .

trisher Sat 15-Jan-22 13:09:13

You often post about Caster Semenya, and whilst I take your word that she has had a very rough time, and that there is (on the face of it) no reason why she should not be able to live her life as she chooses, maybe given the circumstances she might have been better to tread a different path? To keep putting herself forward for testing could be seen as perverse. Life doesn't always work out the way we want it to, and there are times when the needs of one person have to come after the needs of large numbers. As CS seems to be an anomaly, I would suggest that this is one of those times, and that to throw the chances of all female athletes away so that she can fulfil her potential is a step too far.
So black female athletes aren't worth supporting, they should
"stop putting themselves forward for testing". Accept that becaiuse they look different and are physically superior, white female athletes will constantly challenge their right to run, and they will be forced to be tested every time they want to compete and to take compulsory medication because their body does not conform with an unsupported medical belief.
Honestly it's just short of KKK stuff.

VioletSky Sat 15-Jan-22 13:11:17

doodledog I have tried very hard to find a way to get on with you (and others) by modifying many things about my language and how I express myself. This is not reciprocated and I just get called labels and given the assertion that other posters who also treat me unkindly across threads agree with you so you must be right.

So I've given up

Galaxy Sat 15-Jan-22 13:15:56

No CS cant compete in womens sports because she has one of five specific conditions that exclude them from womens sport. It would apply to anyone who had that condition.