Right to make last visit to partners house

I just question why he was so brutal , did they not get on ?

I wouldn't think she has any rights at all in the matter. If she thinks the son is stealing her watch, she should go to the police about it.

I do think he is being a bit harsh about not letting your friend see if anything else of hers is in the property but I do not think he is responsible for the £75.00 hotel bill as it was not him who made the booking and he is not obliged to supply accommadation for her.
Is he maybe taking the cautious route with regard to the property and changing the locks as he may not be sure as to who has possession of keys? and once someone is in the house it could be a problem to remove them,just looking at the two sides to the story really.

This one is going to be difficult to resolve.
I can not see how the partner can expect the son to pay the hotel bill.
Was the woman in a car?.
If so 11pm is not that late to drive 40 miles in any case.
The other problem with the watch is theft could be difficult to prove. If the partner has no receipt I think the case is a non starter and of the watch is in an obscure draw the son may not know it was there.
If she has a receipt unless it identifies the watch with a registration number it will still not prove the watch belongs to her.
The son may claim it belonged to his mother.
The only chance I could think of is if they did not start manufacturing the type of watch till after his mothers death the court may say on the balance of probabilities it belongs to the woman but if the son says he had a girl friend or a wife she may not get the watch anyway.

Frank

I don't see why the son should be responsible for her hotel bill and surely if she explains about the watch he can have a good look for it.. other than that I see no reason why she needs to go back in the house to be honest.
If you look at it from the sons point of view an occasional overnight stay doesn't really constitute a partnership and he is protecting the property till the will/probate are sorted out.

Driving 40 miles late at night while she was emotionally distraught might prove dangerous, Frank. As we get older, some of us are not too happy with driving in the dark.

Tanith - no but it constitutes a friendship, especially after spending the days leading up to his death with him. I know we don't know much about it, but if the son did refuse to let her spend the night at that time in the evening, it was very unkind and unfeeling. As for the watch, if the son is as he appears from the info' we have, she can probably say goodbye to that.

Another problem is does the son know the mothers jewellery well?.
If not how will the lady prove to the son it belonged to her?. She may have just seen it in the house and thought I will have that.
Also was the son aggrieved about her staying in the house. It is not clear if the son was also in occupation of the house but he may have been entitled to be if he was a half owner through inheriting his mothers share especially if he had spent money on the house.

tanith

You are correct. There may be paperwork in the house which proves the property belongs to him. He could be concerned that it may go missing if he lets people in.

annodomini

It may have been dangerous for the woman to drive in the dark but the son is not legally responsible for her safety.

Frank

bluebell

I see what you are saying but the son may have not trusted her to be in the house for some reason.
He did change the locks.
We don't even know if the son was staying at the house that night.

Frank

Exacly Frank - we don't know the details which is why I used the conditional

Something I have thought of in the lady may want to involve her house insurance.
They may write to the son and request permission to got in to the house to try and find this watch. I am unsure if they could take any form of legal action if he refuses and it may not be economic to do so even if it was possible but he may trust somebody from the insurance company more.
The insurance may pay up but they could request proof this watch exists.
I have got doubts if the police would be interested.

Frank

Goodness what a lot of suspicious minds. Perhaps the son just wanted to be on his own the night of his father's death and not play host to someone who, perhaps, he didn't know very well.

absent

I can understand what you are saying but it appears that the son drove over to her house and returned her clothes and it appears some time has elapsed since the death of the father.
Under normal circumstances I think a son / daughter would have let her have a bed for the night but may have only offered her a basic breakfast.
Also there has got to be something wrong for him not to let her come back some time later to check she had not left anything behind.
When my father split with his lady friend she had a change of clothes in the house and I returned them to her as she did not want to return to the house.
Oddly enough I have found a ladies watch in a drawer since my father passed away and I am unsure if it was my mothers.
I did not contact her but she has passed away now and I know that watch is only worth about £50 new.

Frank

In the same circumstances I wouldn't dream of expecting the son to provide me with a bed for the night especially if I would be in the house on my own. Nor would I expect to be able to go back into a house that didn't belong to me and where I had never lived without supervision, not because I would have dishonest intentions but because it is someone else' property and I would have no right to be there. I would have returned the key at the first available opportunity, ideally the night of the death but it would have been forgivable to overlook such a matter at the time.

absent

It is not clear if the son occupied the house with his father or if he was staying at the house that night.
I think had things been ok between the son and the father's friend I think most people would have offered a bed for the night as I presume she was elderly.
I think it was way out of order for her to try and gain access to the house although on the other side it seems slightly strange the son changed the locks in the days leading up to the fathers death.
Once the son had refused to let her in if she felt unsafe to drive back she should have either got a taxi ( I know it would have been expensive ) or gone to a hotel as she did.
To be honest I think she was lucky there was a hotel in a position to let her in at that time of night.
If that had not worked probably she could have gone to the police for advice.
I am sure they would have not left an elderly woman on the street.

Frank

One would be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this than first appears from the information given.
I find it hard to think that the son would deny the lady spending the night at the house if all was well between them, unless he is an unreasonable individual; however in answer to the questions I would think a claim for the hotel bill would be a non starter and access to the house would in my humble opinion only be permissible if they were partners and lived together as husband and wife in the house in which case she would certainly be permitted access.
I would have thought common sense in what is a difficult and emotional situation for all concerned should prevail here and asking the son if she has left the watch in a bedside drawer may be the answer.
I hope a satisfactory conclusion is found.

ps

I think there has got to have been something wrong for the son to have change the locks just prior to the father's death.
Also we don't know the ownership situation before the fathers death. Did the son already own some of the house and did he live in it?.
It looks by virtue of the fact she had a property 40 miles away makes me think they were not living together as husband and wife.
I have heard it said a few times if a spouse has left her half share to the son / daughter and the widowed spouse is living in the property if the widow decides to get married the half property has to be returned to the parent.
This is not correct.
My fathers ex tried to turn me out of the house jointly owned by myself and my father but my father said before I could speak this was not going to happen and she left but I knew I could not be turned out regardless of what Dad and his ex did.
If the son will not cooperate the only thing I think she could do is try the police but I don't think they will be interested.
Even if the watch is found in the house the son could say he did not know it was in that position.
She could try claiming on her house insurance and I don't know if it is possible for an order to be obtained for employees of the insurance company to enter the house.
It could cause problems if the son said for example the employees had taken £5,000 in cash from the house or broken something.

Frank

Such similar styles and stories!

Ariadne

The stories are different in the fact my father lived for 3 years after his ex left where as it appears Gerry's friend had been with the father until his death.
It would be interesting if the lady who was involved joined Gransnet and gave her side of the storey.
My father's ex can not as she is now dead.

Frank

I gathered that.

I guess the son doesn't want your friend coming into the house without his permission hence the change of the lock.

She clearly didn't live with the father so has no claim on anything in the property other than things belonging to her or anything left to her in his will. If the father didn't leave her anything in the will it's clear he just thought her just a friend.

If after checking the watch is nowhere in her own home she needs to write to the son explaining she believes her watch is still in his fathers home.

If he is still not responsive to this she should claim against her contents insurance and get on with her life.

jeanie99

I can only agree with what you are saying.
I can not see it is worth taking legal proceedings to try to get the watch.
This has got to be a lesson to Gransnetters not to leave anything expensive in a friends house.
You may trust your friend but you don't know how the son / daughter will react in this type of situation.

Frank

ps

You said '' partners and lived together as husband and wife in the house in which case she would certainly be permitted access''.

I am not sure this would be the case if the house is willed to the offspring.

I did hear of a situation a little while ago where a son had been left half of a house by his mother and the father owned the other half and was living in the property with a lady as husband / wife. The son was the beneficiary of the father's will and had the keys to the house and went in and changed the locks when she was out.

I understand the lady called the police but they were unable to take action against the son as he produced a copy of the land certificate and the father's will.

I did not hear any further reports about what happened.

Obviously the son would have had to be given his half of the house in some way.

Frank

I have been advised that the son did own half of the house prior to his father passing away through the will left by his mother.
His father had given permission to the lady to enter the house to reclaim her property.
He did not pay anything towards the purchase price.
I would have thought as the woman had been visiting the father for some years she would have had the right to go back to the house and look round it to claim her property anyway.

Really I dont agree with half a house beong left to the offspring when the other parent is still alive and living in the property.

It tends to preclude the living parent from getting another partner and as I have said before care fees should take priority before the children inherit anything.

Gerry