Right to make last visit to partners house

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn

Greatnan / Absent

www.gransnet.com/forums/carers/1197371-Paying-for-Care-Home

Another case of a house being owned by the parents and offspring.

Frank

Nah, doesn't bother me - anyway, they take no notice of my advice (except when it comes to tax rebates!)

I don't know about you Greatnan but I find being the matriarch somewhat terrifying.

Greatnan

I have no spouse or parents but I do have 2 daughters, 4 granddaughters, 2 sons in law, and a lot of other family so you should be kind to me.

Frank

I have no spouse and no parents - boo hoo. I think you should all be kind to me because I am a lonely orphan.

Clones, maybe?

We already are , tennents in Common .

Have been for several years .

thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1594984/Tenants-in-common.html

If you look at the above mentioned article you will see that it is popular for tenants in common ownership to be set up.

The advantages are:

1) The council can not take any of the deceased spouses share of the house should the other spouse have to go in to care.

2 ) The deceased spouses share can not be taken by a future spouse who may be a Gold Digger.

3 ) The inheritance tax advantage is now obsolete.

A lot of the people I worked with advised their parents to split their houses in to tenants in common ownership and for each parent to will their half of the house to them an the first death and they did say their parents did what they advised.

I worked in a bank and I think people in that office generally knew the advantages of Tenants in Common ownership.

Also I have advised people in the road I live in to do the same and most have said it has been done.

I do go to an over 50's club and there are several members who have lost their spouse and have a parent still alive.

Frank

It is very difficult to change you style of writing and use of vocabulary, as I have noticed when people change their forum name. The truth usually outs!

Bentley and Hunter I think you must be identical twins who were separated at birth!

Your writing style and use of English is identical - but you have polar opposite views.

Fascinating!

Greatnan It is astonishing isn't it? I don't have a single contemporary friend, colleague or cousin who owns half of what used to be their family home inherited from a dead parent or who now widowed shares ownership of their home with their son or daughter.

I suppose it is a way of avoiding inheritance tax if the half share falls below the threshold but it could set up all sorts of other problems, such as the son or daughter insisting on realising their asset by being bought out by the surviving parent or selling the house.

How have most of us managed to get to a ripe old age without ever coming across all these cases of children having a half ownership in their parent's house, when Frank seems to have them coming out of his ears.

Not so Frank. The will may be challenged by the surviving spouse when matrimonial assets are involved.

Gerry

How do you know the father gave permission to the woman to enter the property to recover her property?.
The son was a legal owner / occupier of the property before his father's death and the son was within his rights not to let her in.
A husband / wife has the right to will their own property to a person other than the spouse and nothing can be done about it under present legislation.

Frank

I have been advised that the son did own half of the house prior to his father passing away through the will left by his mother.
His father had given permission to the lady to enter the house to reclaim her property.
He did not pay anything towards the purchase price.
I would have thought as the woman had been visiting the father for some years she would have had the right to go back to the house and look round it to claim her property anyway.

Really I dont agree with half a house beong left to the offspring when the other parent is still alive and living in the property.

It tends to preclude the living parent from getting another partner and as I have said before care fees should take priority before the children inherit anything.

Gerry

ps

You said '' partners and lived together as husband and wife in the house in which case she would certainly be permitted access''.

I am not sure this would be the case if the house is willed to the offspring.

I did hear of a situation a little while ago where a son had been left half of a house by his mother and the father owned the other half and was living in the property with a lady as husband / wife. The son was the beneficiary of the father's will and had the keys to the house and went in and changed the locks when she was out.

I understand the lady called the police but they were unable to take action against the son as he produced a copy of the land certificate and the father's will.

I did not hear any further reports about what happened.

Obviously the son would have had to be given his half of the house in some way.

Frank

jeanie99

I can only agree with what you are saying.
I can not see it is worth taking legal proceedings to try to get the watch.
This has got to be a lesson to Gransnetters not to leave anything expensive in a friends house.
You may trust your friend but you don't know how the son / daughter will react in this type of situation.

Frank

I guess the son doesn't want your friend coming into the house without his permission hence the change of the lock.

She clearly didn't live with the father so has no claim on anything in the property other than things belonging to her or anything left to her in his will. If the father didn't leave her anything in the will it's clear he just thought her just a friend.

If after checking the watch is nowhere in her own home she needs to write to the son explaining she believes her watch is still in his fathers home.

If he is still not responsive to this she should claim against her contents insurance and get on with her life.

I gathered that.

Ariadne

The stories are different in the fact my father lived for 3 years after his ex left where as it appears Gerry's friend had been with the father until his death.
It would be interesting if the lady who was involved joined Gransnet and gave her side of the storey.
My father's ex can not as she is now dead.

Frank

Such similar styles and stories!

ps

I think there has got to have been something wrong for the son to have change the locks just prior to the father's death.
Also we don't know the ownership situation before the fathers death. Did the son already own some of the house and did he live in it?.
It looks by virtue of the fact she had a property 40 miles away makes me think they were not living together as husband and wife.
I have heard it said a few times if a spouse has left her half share to the son / daughter and the widowed spouse is living in the property if the widow decides to get married the half property has to be returned to the parent.
This is not correct.
My fathers ex tried to turn me out of the house jointly owned by myself and my father but my father said before I could speak this was not going to happen and she left but I knew I could not be turned out regardless of what Dad and his ex did.
If the son will not cooperate the only thing I think she could do is try the police but I don't think they will be interested.
Even if the watch is found in the house the son could say he did not know it was in that position.
She could try claiming on her house insurance and I don't know if it is possible for an order to be obtained for employees of the insurance company to enter the house.
It could cause problems if the son said for example the employees had taken £5,000 in cash from the house or broken something.

Frank

One would be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this than first appears from the information given.
I find it hard to think that the son would deny the lady spending the night at the house if all was well between them, unless he is an unreasonable individual; however in answer to the questions I would think a claim for the hotel bill would be a non starter and access to the house would in my humble opinion only be permissible if they were partners and lived together as husband and wife in the house in which case she would certainly be permitted access.
I would have thought common sense in what is a difficult and emotional situation for all concerned should prevail here and asking the son if she has left the watch in a bedside drawer may be the answer.
I hope a satisfactory conclusion is found.

absent

It is not clear if the son occupied the house with his father or if he was staying at the house that night.
I think had things been ok between the son and the father's friend I think most people would have offered a bed for the night as I presume she was elderly.
I think it was way out of order for her to try and gain access to the house although on the other side it seems slightly strange the son changed the locks in the days leading up to the fathers death.
Once the son had refused to let her in if she felt unsafe to drive back she should have either got a taxi ( I know it would have been expensive ) or gone to a hotel as she did.
To be honest I think she was lucky there was a hotel in a position to let her in at that time of night.
If that had not worked probably she could have gone to the police for advice.
I am sure they would have not left an elderly woman on the street.

Frank