Which is correct?.

Why's that, then, Frank? I mean, why do you think that?

Following that logic, I guess most of the pensioners who live along my lane are poverty-stricken, too!

Then they are certainly not poor Frank. I manage on less than that.

What's your definition of 'poor' then, Frank? Scraping by on £50,000 p.a.?

Many people do not have a company or similar pension, esecially women who may not have had a full time job and an awful lot of people exist on their OAP.
Nothing like £21K+

You live in a different world, Frank. On a total annual income of £10,400 comprising state pension, VERY small fixed private pension + 50% share of rental income on our flat, I do not consider myself really poor and manage quite nicely thank you.In fact, with no mortgage, no debt, no travel to work costs, no payments towards the pension, I have more diposable income - to spend on the DDs and DGC - than I have ever had. Suppose this is one of the benefits of working for many years in the low paid, non pensionable voluntary sector - you don't miss what you have never had.

Frank, The problem with averages is that they are just that and unless you know the range and frequency of the values within the average you have no idea how representative it is of the full distribution. I consulted some government statistics and came up with the following information.

The poorest 20% of pensioner couples have an income of £205 a week. The next 20 % have an income of £270 a week. The middle 20% have an income of £353 a week, the next 20% an income of £493 a week and the top 20% an income of £1,103 a week. Average £485

For single pensioners the figures are; £130, £158 £177 £235 £468 and the average is £234,

To summarise the results 40% of pensioner couples have a weekly income of under £14,000 a year, For single pensioners 40% have an income of just over £8,000.

I think the above information explains what 'An average income of £21,000 actually means.

Another visit to 'Planet Frank'

Frank I am new to this site but with all due respect I can't help but perceive that you may have an unhealthy pre-occupation with money or money matters.
I have no idea where you heard that the average pensioner had an income of £21000 from all sources but the latest from the office for National Statistics states otherwise. In fact it states "£345 per week for single men pensioners and £279 per week for single women pensioners." That remember is an average and pre tax. I would venture to suggest that the vast majority of pensioners in UK today live on significantly less, in fact far less, therefore you may wish to revise your definitions of what constitutes poor or wealthy. The people in your road with incomes "well above £21000" (you didn't say if they are all pensioners) may well be poor as you suggest but might also be wealthy. I guess it all depends on what percentage of their income is disposable.
There is a philosophical view that suggests that discussing money is vulgar, I tend to agree with that view generally but accept others are free to do as they please, abusing the privilege however is another matter. But do please keep up the postings as I do find them a light source of amusement in an otherwise serious world. Thank you.

I'm sorry, ps, but I really don't see how the people in Frank's road with incomes well above £21,000 can possibly be defined as 'poor', whatever percentage of their income is disposable.

Are you just "showing off" Frank?

Frank is at it again.

First of all (as pointed out by FlicketyB) average is a word used in politics to cover up a real picture. If 2 people have a £100k coming in and one person has £10k the average is £70,000k so that's fine isn't it , everyone is happy and the statistics say the average income is £70,000. Except that the poor guy with the £10k still only has £10k doesn't he?

Frank you seem to live in a warped world of money money money and have this "I'm alright Jack" attitude to everything and if you think having an income of £21,000 makes you poor well I pity you and those poor souls living in your street. I do hope you get enough to eat and are keeping warm. Pathetic.

It does cost more to live in London but £21,000 is a very good pension. I know that we receive the Freedom Pass here which is a Godsend because of the cost of buses and tubes.

Frank - are you aware that there are now organised food hand out points all over London now so your friends should not go hungry.

For heating, to help with the bills, maybe if each heats one room one evening a week and invites the friends and neighbours round, they can be saving on the heating and electricity in their own houses. Just a thought.

My income is a little over half of that quoted but I find I can live quite comfortably on that (although the heating oil bill does cause me some concern!!).

If I didn't have a small private pension I don't know how I would manage on just the state pension when I get it; it would just about cover council tax, heating, water and running my car. Nothing left for food, going out or holidays. Can't imagine how rich I'd feel with £21,000.

Most older people on a pension of £21,000 (is that per couple or each member of a couple) own their own home so no longer have housing costs. Many younger people, particularly in the south are paying £700 - £1,000 each month just in rent or mortgage payments and to have £21,000 left after paying housing costs to them would be a fortune.

Own up Frank - stirring again aren't you?

Charleygirl

When you say £21,000 is a good pension I presume you just mean occuptional pension and the person would receive the state pension in addition.

Frank

Frank- No, I meant the combined state and occupational pension making up to £21,000. Apologies for not making myself clear.

Frank does like financial matters to be crystal clear, charleygirl. It has a lot to do with the situation he found himself in when his father died, I think.

How on earth would we know what our neighbours earn or have as pension? I have no idea about mine, nor do I want to know.

Thanks, Ariadne but does it really matter to anybody other than Frank?

Ariadne

Yes and I still get the occasional idiot approach me who says the house belongs to my father's ex lady friend's family.
They have still not taken any legal action.

Frank

I knew there was a reason why I was avoiding this thread!