UK pensions lowest in developed world!

Even those of us whose were 'sensible and organised' lost out when Gordon Brown did his raid on pension pots.
I know I'm lucky to have my reasonable but modest pension having paid superannuation contributions while teaching. I paid 5 years of contributions in my 20's but was daft enough to follow advice to withdraw that as I left for first baby.
Going back to teaching later, I looked at buying back the missing years but a financial advisor persuaded me slightly differently , and as it turned out, wrongly.
The ombudsman agreed and I had some little compensation.
My point is that we cannot always rely on even reputable financial advisors and that governments have so many ways to scupper our 'best-laid plans'.
Allowing for that and the fact that everyone doesn't have the control you advocate newnanny I suggest that you get off your high horse and admit that circumstances dictate that there will always be those who suffer at pension age *through no fault of their own".

Yes I’ve read that before.

So take the can’t afford it mantra with a pinch of salt in future folks. They can if they want to.

Going back to the question by newnanny up thread. Of course we saw a financial advisor. Everything had to go through him anyway. He advised us against doing it but understood our reasons. We also sold at a loss (surprisingly). Sadly at the time we felt that we had no choice and sold our pensions, home, static caravan etc. In order to keep the business going and people in jobs. DH and I have often wondered over the years if any of them fully appreciated the sacrifices we had made. I very much doubt it. Hindsight is marvellous isn’t it?

There is a great deal of generalisation on here which I don't think was intended to suggest that those unable to pay into a pension were in some way to blame. I think there are quite a lot of people who simply don't think they need to pay in, I didn't when I paid the married women's stamp, I though DH would be able to keep me. Later I learned more and started paying into a pension at a time when money really was very tight but not so tight I couldn't manage it. We gave up lots of things that others took for granted.

Like so many others life was very expensive and, at the time there was no NI credit for time spent at home looking after children which, in my case, was a long time because I had many miscarriages in between having children so had big age gaps. I needed 39 years of NI contributions to get a full pension so failed but I was able to defer my pension which at that time was a much better deal than it is now. I took the gamble that I would live another 10 years which was the time needed to make it worthwhile, I have done so now am making a profit.

When I recruited new people in my last job I always suggested that they joined the pension scheme as, with the salary sacrifice and employer contribution, it equated to about a 15% salary increase but most of them didn't want to know.

As I have already said, there is a ticking time bomb of those people who have sold their pensions at the age of 55 in the belief that the government will look after them, not because there was a real need to do so. Unless the system changes these people will have free care home places subsidised by those who have to pay for their care.

I think we all know that there are people who could not/cannot pay into their pensions but that does not mean that those who could but don't are right.

I remember many years ago FiL who had struggled to pay into a pension and had just over whatever the threshold was at the time, complaining that people who lived near him were getting help to pay their rent etc and drinking in the pub every night while he could only afford to go once a week. He was quite bitter about it because he had always 'paid his way, never got into debt'.

I was divorced 15 years ago, having not worked or only worked part time when I was married. thankfully my solicitor arranged for me to have a small pension that was my husbands. At the time I didn't realise how important that would be in the future; had it not been for that [and it's only a small pension] I would be living on @ £550 a month, now. I guess when we're young it's difficult to see so far into the future and young people are up to their neck in mortgage repayments etc. As for working till I'm 70; I'm reasonably healthy for my age but find myself getting very tired and can't imagine working full time until that age.

Nonnie re the 'married women's stamp' we were in fact lied to (at least where I worked we were).
We were told that we would get our pensions based on our husband's contributions and that we need not pay the full stamp. This was advice from the human resources department of a large hospital group.
Any superannuation paid in towards our pensions was returned to us as well when we left (as we did in those days no maternity payments) to have a family.
Home Responsibilities Protection was introduced in, as far as I remember, 1974 so SAH mothers or those in receipt of a carer's allowance had their stamp paid.
And I paid mine in full anyway when I returned to work although I don't have the full 39 years so not a full pension by any means.

Thanks Jalima you have reminded me, yes I was advised I would get my pension based on my husband's contributions. I wonder if that was actually the case at the time and subsequently changed?

I think some of these things get forgotten when discussions about how difficult it is for young people today. I have made sure my DSs and DiLs are far more aware than I was and also warned them that any future change of government could change everything. They know they need to put their eggs is more than one basket.

I think we were lied to Nonnie - or at least it was obfuscation.
Of course we would get a pension of sorts based on our DH's contributions, but it was minimal and not in our own right. Why they did that I don't know; perhaps they thought it would save the Government money in the future.

I remember that my DM, who always worked part or full time and paid the Married Women's stamp got less old age pension than slightly older MIL who never worked a single day after she got married.

Really!
My sisterIL worked all her married life apart from about 18 months when they moved house and ended up with no pensions of her own for one reason or another.
Was that bad luck or bad planning? In fact, it was probably both, lack of foresight by not joining a firm's pension scheme, then joining one with another firm which went bust. She always paid the Married Woman's stamp too.

I meant Really !? Goodness me!
not doubting you Granny23

I think Jen is right gillybob and I wonder if you misunderstood the comment. We do not (thankfully) have a system where what you pay in is what you get back so asking for higher taxes does not mean those on the breadline would be paying more - well not under our current democracy.

We all agree to pay on a progressive tax scale in order to give a basic pension. The Tory's have always been a party of low tax 'and never mind those who cannot earn more than they are currently'. They have, since Thatcher, been seeing 'low tax' as meaning more and more extremely low tax and never mind those in intolerable circumstances or dying from their actions.

It is very sad, that so many of our generation, who benefited from the increased sharing of wealth are now so keen not to share a penny of what they see as being their own. High tax economies are happier and the 'high tax' is not that high.

We gave up lots of things that others took for granted. Oh please - more halo rubbing. Not everyone has the means. That is rarely (though occasionally) there fault. Not everyone sees they should change their initial decision. Not because they are not as wonderful as you but because they made a different decision on the information available to them. You could just as easily come out on the wrong side.

Some people on pensions are taxpayers though, and I have heard it advocated that we should pay a percentage towards the NHS too. In fact, I said that myself and was told that it comes out of general taxation more than the NI contribution.
I haven't heard of anyone of my age saying that they would not be happy to pay more tax.

Graces why do you have to be so unpleasant? Why attribute something to me I didn't say? Of course it is sometime 'there fault' sic. Many people make such choices as I explained and to pretend that everyone who makes the wrong choice is poor and unable to make the right choice is plainly very wrong.

What is wrong with those of us who made what turned out to be the right choice saying we did? No halos, just a good deal of common sense. And no, don't attack me for saying that, I have already acknowledged that some people don't have the choices I had but I think you are wrong to suggest that just because I made the decisions I did and took pre-emptive action when I realised I had made the wrong choices you have a right to attack me.

There really are people who hear the message and still put their heads in the sand, yes there are.

Thanks, GracesGran, that is what I meant. I was talking about the state pension, not company or private pensions.

If you look at pension comparison charts, along with how much tax we pay, you will find that most of the Nordic countries pay over 50% tax and NI equivalent, as do many other countries.
We pay 20% tax until our pay reaches £100,000.
I don't know anyone who is paid that.
Add 12.5% NI, that is still nowhere near enough to keep up.

If you pay less tax, you get a smaller pension, put simply.

DJ you are mistaken, in the UK we pay 40% on annual earnings from £34,501 to £150,000

I am not being judgmental Gracesgran but just pointing out the facts. I know the rules changed, pension ages changed, they changed for me too, I lost some money into SERPS as well. But Granny 23 you did take responsibility and set up your own pension and now will be above the limit for pension top up so although not rich you will be able to manage, because you took action.

Many people are saying they had no company pension on offer so therefore did not pay pension. That happened to me too and that is why I actively sought out a Stakeholder pension. If there is no company pension then anyone can take out a stakeholder pension and pay in any amount even very small amounts will all mount up and be invested to gain interest. You can also chose where the money is invested so giving you some control. If things are too tight one month they don't mind if you miss the odd month if you tell them in advance. At the end of the day whatever money we were all paid each month/week we all had the choice whether to spend it all or save a bit into a pension and I went without things I would have really liked at the time in order to make sure my retirement would not be too tough. Also for every pound paid into pension the government pays in an extra 20p so if you could only pay £100 a month then that will be £120 paid. If you pay income tax you could be paying some of that money into a pension then you will pay less tax.

Personally I think any government should force everyone to pay at least 8-10% of their wages into their pension pot.

Otherwise we are just making the next generation pay our way which is not fair and a lot of younger people complain about inter-generational fairness.

Durhamjen is correct we only pay 20% on incomes up to about £48,000 in many countries the government takes far more in tax but then you get a higher pension. In Sweden I think the income tax is double what we pay in UK. Our government allows us to keep far more of the money we earn and expects us to to take personal responsibility to pay into a pension. You can't have your cake and eat it too, pay nothing in and then complain you won't get much back. As it is those who did not make pension provision will be given pension top up but then that money can't be used for NHS or social care, or education, it can only be spent once.

Going forward the government ought to make everyone pay 8-10% pf their earnings into a pension.

Very brave newnany you may well get a very judgmental response as I did when told I was polishing my halo, if Graces is even handed and not just anti me!

"We gave up lots of things that others took for granted. Oh please - more halo rubbing. Not everyone has the means. That is rarely (though occasionally) there fault. Not everyone sees they should change their initial decision. Not because they are not as wonderful as you but because they made a different decision on the information available to them. You could just as easily come out on the wrong side."

Yes, you are partially right, nonnie.
That's the amount after the personal taxfree allowance has been taken out.

"Millions of people will pay less in tax as a result of the rise in the tax-free limit and higher-rate tax bracket announced in today's Budget.

As expected, the Government is to raise the "personal allowance" to £11,850 in the 2018-19 tax year - up from £11,500 currently.

At the same time, the higher-rate, 40pc, tax threshold is to increase to £46,350 from £45,000.

The move is part of the Conservatives' previously-announced plan to raise the personal allowance to £12,000 and higher-rate to £50,000 by April 2020.

A basic-rate, 20pc, taxpayer will save £70 as a result, while a higher-rate payer will save £340 a year.

The Government said the gradual increase in both allowances since 2010-11 means a typical taxpayer will pay £1,075 less in tax per year than when the coalition government came in.

In the 2010-11 tax year, the personal allowance was £6,475 and higher-rate threshold £43,875."

It doesn't change my main point, though. If you want a better pension, you should be prepared to pay more tax. The government thought that reducing taxes would be a winner.

Only 'partially'? Better tell HMRC because it was copied and pasted from their website!

I am not anti you or anyone else Nonnie. I am anti thoughtless and rather arrogant remarks. Poverty makes poor choices not people. Equally wealth makes easy ones. With sufficient money you can make a poor choice and forget it. Without you often end up paying more and paying twice so you are trapped in your poverty with little chance of planning ahead for weeks or months let alone for your retirement.

If you went through life thinking you were giving up "lots of things that others took for granted" it sounds as if you have never known, either in your own life or others, the day to day anxiety of not being able to take anything for granted.

We need to pay enough tax to provide a decent basic pension however we do that.

Nonnie, I have been accused of being both 'judgmental' and being on a 'high horse' but I don't care, I am not meaning to be. I am proactive and think others need to be as well. Some people just don't seem able to keep abreast of government information, move quickly when legislation changes to protect themselves, take professional advice given, especially when they paid for it, or personal responsibility and plan ahead. All schools should teach financial planning to help young people cope with finances and debt and to teach children they will need to give up some things now in order to have a better time later. I was taught that lesson by my parents. When I started work my Dad told me not to pay the lower married woman's NI that I could have paid but to pay my own full NI, and not rely on my husband. I took his advice but many may have not been given good sensible advice by parents.

MY DD works in professional role and informed me that only a few of the woman she works with pay much pension but their husbands do pay it. Money is really tight for her as she has nursery fees to pay but I told her no matter what keep paying her own pension.

Many workers in the burgeoning so called gig economy, are deemed to be self employed, are generally low paid, and are missing out on their employers contribution to their pension, along with other rights afforded to employees. It's hard to see how they will be in a position to save towards a pension.

We pay 20% tax until our pay reaches £100,000.
I don't think that is correct.

Yes, I do know people who were on £100,00 plus (far in excess of what we ever earned between us) but they made some bad choices, risky decisions and in fact are no better off in their retirement than we are who were always Mr and Mrs Cautious. The tortoise and the hare syndrome.

It does come down to poor choices in many instances but not always.
Sometimes it just seems to be sheer bad luck.