UK pensions lowest in developed world!

DJ you are mistaken, in the UK we pay 40% on annual earnings from £34,501 to £150,000

Thanks, GracesGran, that is what I meant. I was talking about the state pension, not company or private pensions.

If you look at pension comparison charts, along with how much tax we pay, you will find that most of the Nordic countries pay over 50% tax and NI equivalent, as do many other countries.
We pay 20% tax until our pay reaches £100,000.
I don't know anyone who is paid that.
Add 12.5% NI, that is still nowhere near enough to keep up.

If you pay less tax, you get a smaller pension, put simply.

Graces why do you have to be so unpleasant? Why attribute something to me I didn't say? Of course it is sometime 'there fault' sic. Many people make such choices as I explained and to pretend that everyone who makes the wrong choice is poor and unable to make the right choice is plainly very wrong.

What is wrong with those of us who made what turned out to be the right choice saying we did? No halos, just a good deal of common sense. And no, don't attack me for saying that, I have already acknowledged that some people don't have the choices I had but I think you are wrong to suggest that just because I made the decisions I did and took pre-emptive action when I realised I had made the wrong choices you have a right to attack me.

There really are people who hear the message and still put their heads in the sand, yes there are.

Some people on pensions are taxpayers though, and I have heard it advocated that we should pay a percentage towards the NHS too. In fact, I said that myself and was told that it comes out of general taxation more than the NI contribution.
I haven't heard of anyone of my age saying that they would not be happy to pay more tax.

We gave up lots of things that others took for granted. Oh please - more halo rubbing. Not everyone has the means. That is rarely (though occasionally) there fault. Not everyone sees they should change their initial decision. Not because they are not as wonderful as you but because they made a different decision on the information available to them. You could just as easily come out on the wrong side.

I think Jen is right gillybob and I wonder if you misunderstood the comment. We do not (thankfully) have a system where what you pay in is what you get back so asking for higher taxes does not mean those on the breadline would be paying more - well not under our current democracy.

We all agree to pay on a progressive tax scale in order to give a basic pension. The Tory's have always been a party of low tax 'and never mind those who cannot earn more than they are currently'. They have, since Thatcher, been seeing 'low tax' as meaning more and more extremely low tax and never mind those in intolerable circumstances or dying from their actions.

It is very sad, that so many of our generation, who benefited from the increased sharing of wealth are now so keen not to share a penny of what they see as being their own. High tax economies are happier and the 'high tax' is not that high.

I meant Really !? Goodness me!
not doubting you Granny23

Really!
My sisterIL worked all her married life apart from about 18 months when they moved house and ended up with no pensions of her own for one reason or another.
Was that bad luck or bad planning? In fact, it was probably both, lack of foresight by not joining a firm's pension scheme, then joining one with another firm which went bust. She always paid the Married Woman's stamp too.

I remember that my DM, who always worked part or full time and paid the Married Women's stamp got less old age pension than slightly older MIL who never worked a single day after she got married.

I think we were lied to Nonnie - or at least it was obfuscation.
Of course we would get a pension of sorts based on our DH's contributions, but it was minimal and not in our own right. Why they did that I don't know; perhaps they thought it would save the Government money in the future.

Thanks Jalima you have reminded me, yes I was advised I would get my pension based on my husband's contributions. I wonder if that was actually the case at the time and subsequently changed?

I think some of these things get forgotten when discussions about how difficult it is for young people today. I have made sure my DSs and DiLs are far more aware than I was and also warned them that any future change of government could change everything. They know they need to put their eggs is more than one basket.

Nonnie re the 'married women's stamp' we were in fact lied to (at least where I worked we were).
We were told that we would get our pensions based on our husband's contributions and that we need not pay the full stamp. This was advice from the human resources department of a large hospital group.
Any superannuation paid in towards our pensions was returned to us as well when we left (as we did in those days no maternity payments) to have a family.
Home Responsibilities Protection was introduced in, as far as I remember, 1974 so SAH mothers or those in receipt of a carer's allowance had their stamp paid.
And I paid mine in full anyway when I returned to work although I don't have the full 39 years so not a full pension by any means.

I was divorced 15 years ago, having not worked or only worked part time when I was married. thankfully my solicitor arranged for me to have a small pension that was my husbands. At the time I didn't realise how important that would be in the future; had it not been for that [and it's only a small pension] I would be living on @ £550 a month, now. I guess when we're young it's difficult to see so far into the future and young people are up to their neck in mortgage repayments etc. As for working till I'm 70; I'm reasonably healthy for my age but find myself getting very tired and can't imagine working full time until that age.

There is a great deal of generalisation on here which I don't think was intended to suggest that those unable to pay into a pension were in some way to blame. I think there are quite a lot of people who simply don't think they need to pay in, I didn't when I paid the married women's stamp, I though DH would be able to keep me. Later I learned more and started paying into a pension at a time when money really was very tight but not so tight I couldn't manage it. We gave up lots of things that others took for granted.

Like so many others life was very expensive and, at the time there was no NI credit for time spent at home looking after children which, in my case, was a long time because I had many miscarriages in between having children so had big age gaps. I needed 39 years of NI contributions to get a full pension so failed but I was able to defer my pension which at that time was a much better deal than it is now. I took the gamble that I would live another 10 years which was the time needed to make it worthwhile, I have done so now am making a profit.

When I recruited new people in my last job I always suggested that they joined the pension scheme as, with the salary sacrifice and employer contribution, it equated to about a 15% salary increase but most of them didn't want to know.

As I have already said, there is a ticking time bomb of those people who have sold their pensions at the age of 55 in the belief that the government will look after them, not because there was a real need to do so. Unless the system changes these people will have free care home places subsidised by those who have to pay for their care.

I think we all know that there are people who could not/cannot pay into their pensions but that does not mean that those who could but don't are right.

I remember many years ago FiL who had struggled to pay into a pension and had just over whatever the threshold was at the time, complaining that people who lived near him were getting help to pay their rent etc and drinking in the pub every night while he could only afford to go once a week. He was quite bitter about it because he had always 'paid his way, never got into debt'.

Going back to the question by newnanny up thread. Of course we saw a financial advisor. Everything had to go through him anyway. He advised us against doing it but understood our reasons. We also sold at a loss (surprisingly). Sadly at the time we felt that we had no choice and sold our pensions, home, static caravan etc. In order to keep the business going and people in jobs. DH and I have often wondered over the years if any of them fully appreciated the sacrifices we had made. I very much doubt it. Hindsight is marvellous isn’t it?

Yes I’ve read that before.

So take the can’t afford it mantra with a pinch of salt in future folks. They can if they want to.

Even those of us whose were 'sensible and organised' lost out when Gordon Brown did his raid on pension pots.
I know I'm lucky to have my reasonable but modest pension having paid superannuation contributions while teaching. I paid 5 years of contributions in my 20's but was daft enough to follow advice to withdraw that as I left for first baby.
Going back to teaching later, I looked at buying back the missing years but a financial advisor persuaded me slightly differently , and as it turned out, wrongly.
The ombudsman agreed and I had some little compensation.
My point is that we cannot always rely on even reputable financial advisors and that governments have so many ways to scupper our 'best-laid plans'.
Allowing for that and the fact that everyone doesn't have the control you advocate newnanny I suggest that you get off your high horse and admit that circumstances dictate that there will always be those who suffer at pension age *through no fault of their own".

I fear my DH will be working well into his 70’s as he will be 78 when I finally get my state pension. Sadly his is a very physical job so not sure if it will be possible.

I had planned on retiring at 60 when DH was 70 but some of us have been very badly let down.

Oh dj that’s such an unfair comment.

When you work for the lowest wages to keep a roof over your head and feed your children what part of your wage would you consider giving up to a pension? That rubbish new scheme that the government introduced “the work place pension” makes my blood boil. Low paid workers paying small amounts into a pension with the employer forced to match it. Does anyone really think they will see a good return on it? How do they think the scheme managers make money? Yes they live off your meagre contributions and at the end (if indeed there is ever an end) the pot will be so small it will be almost worthless.

Very good luck to those who were fortunate to have good pensions and could afford to pay a decent sum into them. Good luck also to public sector workers who see their contributions topped up by the tax payer. A decent portion of my council tax goes to paying for the pensions of others, sadly no one has ever contributed to mine.

The reason our pensions are the lowest in the developed world is because we pay the lowest tax.
The government is a low tax government and wants it to be lower.
If you don't put much in, you can't expect to get much out.

Well, I take my hat off to him, and I'm not even wearing one!

He is fortunate to be well enough to work at such an age but his circumstances have dictated that he must.

80?! Wow!

Pensions seem to have become as risky as betting on which shell the pea is under. You can pay as much as you can afford into your pension for years and still get very little income when you retire. My BIL is still working full time at 80 and just says it is fortunate it is possible to sit down at his job.

The problem with careful planning is that the powers that be keep changing the rules. e.g. Serps, Retirement age and Married Womens' NI contributions.

Here is why I have very little pension.

I worked in a high street bank for 8.5 years until I left to have my first child. 1st three years were a probationary period - not pensionable, then I was in the pension scheme for 20 months until I married and was immediately classed as temporary staff so not in the scheme. No pension paid to those with less than 2 years in the scheme so not a penny piece for me.

Went back to work part time, when both DDs were at school. Paid £17 + £5 in an envelope for 'expenses' because £17 was the threshold for paying NI and thereby employers NI, which ultimately left me short of sufficient contributions to get full state pension. Then worked in the voluntary sector part time, later full time and after redundancy part time again. No works pension schemes though full NI paid.

All this time we were paying a considerable sum into self employed DH's private pensions - 1 to pay out when he was 70 the other when he was 65, both had the option to pay out at maturity 50/50 to insured and spouse. Then the DH of a friend, (who was the same age as me) died before reaching retirement age and his pension died, unpaid, with him. All that hard earned money gone, and the widow, in her 50s with two sons at University had to find a job.

That is when I started my own private pension, with a lump sum from my half share of my parent's modest estate which will ensure that I will have just enough income on top of my state pension to be above the level for pension top up.

Apparently, all my own fault for not earning enough, or planning properly.