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Legal & money

Council tax

(68 Posts)
Carolina55 Thu 07-Mar-19 11:40:54

Ok ladies - time to moan......ours will be increased by 9.6% and that’s without the police and community council increases!

It irritates the hell out of me that Wales went from 8 council areas in 1996/7 to 22 - meaning 22 CEOs, 22 Finance directors, Planning, Social Services, Education etc. etc and all the other staff and buildings and vehicles needed to ‘provide the services’.....de-dah, de-dah!

I wish I could tell you that I feel better having got that out but I don’t.....lol!

mcem Thu 07-Mar-19 11:50:51

I'm less concerned about the % age increase than about the amount we actually pay. As has often been said here, it is the wealthiest areas that pay least so they'll face a small monetary increase. Thus the gap widens.
My increase is 3% but that's a relatively meaningless statement really.

Charleygirl5 Thu 07-Mar-19 13:25:18

Now I no longer pay a mortgage the council tax is my largest bill. I am aware I get 25% reduction because I live on my own but 4 working adults live next door- I do not think that is fair.

gillybob Thu 07-Mar-19 13:38:23

I live in one of the poorest boroughs in the UK and we have one of the highest council tax rates . There are 12 LA executives on salaries of between £120k and £150k plus pensions snd expenses. Services are either gone altogether or cut to the bone and yet (Like others) we are still faced with yet another council tax rise . Do they think we all have a money tree ? Where do they expect us to find more money year on year? Yes mcem you are spot on , the wealthiest areas pay the very least council tax . How can that be fair ?

EllanVannin Thu 07-Mar-19 13:55:11

Charleygirl----hence why the Poll tax was fairer.
In your situation like that of many apart from the 25% reduction we STILL have to pay the same as that of a family of workers.

When we had the Poll tax EVERYONE in the household had to contribute and that's why people kicked off. What could have been fairer than that ? A jolly sight more fair than the system we have now !

I wonder if these same workers are complaining now at paying full council tax while everyone else in the family gets off scot-free ?

Anja Thu 07-Mar-19 14:23:40

Could it be that certain areas with higher levels of poverty and social deprivation need more money from their residents to support certain services?

Or would it be acceptable that local taxes from one area are syphoned off to support services in a more needy one?

yggdrasil Thu 07-Mar-19 14:27:38

Ellenvannin: When we had the Poll tax EVERYONE in the household had to contribute and that's why people kicked off. What could have been fairer than that ?

Everyone had to contribute the same amount, whether they were employed or not. Whether they had a fortune in savings or were on benefits.
That is totally unfair . A poll tax caused the Peasants Revolt in the 14th century, and riots under Thatcher in the 20th, for just that reason.

gillybob Thu 07-Mar-19 14:44:53

Neither the poll tax nor the current system were/are really fair . The richest boroughs like Kensington & Chelsea pay the very least CT and the most deprived pay the most .

Anja Thu 07-Mar-19 15:27:05

But it, for example, Kensington & Chelsea paid more in Council Tax then they could afford even better services for the rich gilly

But if you think that this excess should instead be diverted to the poor areas then I congratulate you as a true socialist thinker 👍🏽

Fennel Thu 07-Mar-19 15:37:11

I don't know the basis for working out CT rates, but it could be linked to the amount the Govt. pays to the council in subsidies.
As this is our first year back here, I don't know a typical amount. Anyone care to divulge? Ours is £130 pm for a 2 bedroomed ex council house in an impoverished NE town. Services are very good.

M0nica Thu 07-Mar-19 15:42:55

yggdrasil, that is no less fair than the current system where every household regardless of its how many people are in it and regardless income of income.

A lot of people who are retired are living in houses, that maybe quite small, but are still in higher Council tax brackets and now have far less income than when they were both in work, probably cannot afford to move, but equally struggle to pay their rapidly rising council tax.

A poll tax can be easily adapted to people's income. Let the Councils set a tax rate, which is payed through PAYE, with how much of the standard amount you pay raised or lowered in accordance with your highest tax rate. There could be a separate much lower rate for those on benefits.

gillybob Thu 07-Mar-19 15:54:51

But if you think that this excess should instead be diverted to the poor areas then I congratulate you as a true socialist thinker 👍🏽

I absolutely do think that excesses should be diverted Anja ! It’s the only method that makes sense .

Riverwalk Thu 07-Mar-19 15:55:04

But it, for example, Kensington & Chelsea paid more in Council Tax then they could afford even better services for the rich gilly. But if you think that this excess should instead be diverted to the poor areas then I congratulate you as a true socialist thinker

Anja if the richer boroughs raised more via Council Tax then the Central Government grant could be reduced and spent elsewhere.

gillybob Thu 07-Mar-19 15:55:43

The banding system is all wrong too .

gillybob Thu 07-Mar-19 15:58:07

My town has a huge population of retired (ex heavy industry )elderly . The demand on services is high so they have to completely cripple those of us who can pay to make up the shortfall . That and the council executives are greedy fat cats on extortionate wages .

Cherrytree59 Thu 07-Mar-19 16:14:30

Any GNer who thinks that they may be in the wrong council tax band please check out the Martin Lewis web site.
He gives a step by step guide on how to apply to lower your council tax band.

Apparently the bands were put into place in the 1990s and houses in same street were often just given the same band.

In our last house we successfully persuaded the local council to lower our council tax band to one band below.
(did it by ourselves pre Martin Lewis)

Carolina55 Thu 07-Mar-19 17:06:03

Fennel- ours is that (10 monthly payments) here in north Wales for 2 bed bungalow and I don’t object to that per se.

It’s more that we pay for 22 chiefs and deputies etc at the top of each department earning vast salaries that they would never get or keep in the private sector (and don’t start me on pensions and sick leave) when 8 were enough from 1974 through to 1996/7.

They try to tell us that services have improved but our bins now get emptied every 4 weeks! How does that work?

bikergran Thu 07-Mar-19 18:15:25

Im in Lancashire have to pay £94 a month and thats with 25% discount. Band A

maryeliza54 Thu 07-Mar-19 18:30:58

I don’t think there’s anyway that council tax could be fair. And neither was the poll tax. Of course it does depend what is meant by fair but somewhere in the mix has to be the concept of it bring a progressive tax I. i.e. related to income but given the enormous disparities in income in different regions of the UK then how the Government determines its share is also crucial

Fennel Thu 07-Mar-19 18:38:58

So ours isn't too bad.
How do you qualify for a discount? Is it means tested? Or age related?

Charleygirl5 Thu 07-Mar-19 18:41:46

I dare not say too much about banding. I pay band D but because of house prices in London, I should be paying band F or whatever is higher yet it is difficult to swing a cat in my small house. My tax is going up £150 a year and libraries have closed and our roads are riddled with potholes. We still pay extra to have garden waste removed.

bikergran Thu 07-Mar-19 18:53:29

Fennel think it maybe means tested , infact I am just in the process of filling out the form, as I am on a low income and just feel that the amount I am paying isnt right.
I wont hold my breath as even when on Bereavement benefit (£111.00) a week I still have to pay £44 a month out of that for my CT.

When they then moved me to Jobseekers allwance (£73.00) a week I still have to pay about £22 a month.

Charleygirl5 Thu 07-Mar-19 19:24:37

bikergran it is beyond me if you are on a low income that you pay any council tax at all. They give with one hand and take back with the other- it makes little sense to me.

bikergran Thu 07-Mar-19 19:41:45

Yes Charliegirl its a bitter pill to swallow, I have been in work almost 3 years now and no one has ever said I may or may not be paying too much I really don't know, but this time I am going to make enquires.

But Like I say with our Council "Hyndburn Borough Council" I and many others still had to pay CT out of our Jobseekers.(which is also a Taxable benefit! along with bereavement benefit)

But anyway digressing away from the subject.

Yes I do think CT needs an overhaul.Not sure in what direction though.

maryeliza54 Thu 07-Mar-19 20:00:46

Fennel the discount is all part of the inane stupidity and unfairness of council tax - not related to age or income.