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Legal, pensions and money

Murder or manslaughter

(83 Posts)
Rivernana Sun 15-Dec-19 17:45:42

What are your opinions on the Sally Challen case? Was it right to overturn her conviction for murder? Not many people (men or women) in abusive relationships go so far as to kill their abuser.

Granless Tue 17-Dec-19 20:19:21

Smileless2012 - just seen your post. What a thoughtful response, thank you.

pinkquartz Tue 17-Dec-19 18:01:51

I watched the documentary and I could understand why she did it.
I can't explain it all in a few words but I would say that you need to understand how these controlling men work and also that she was with him from the age of 16.
She couldn't face life without him and he was still playing her.
He still lead her onto believe that they were going to get back together while he was still seeing other women.

I would never let a man like that near me not even when I was very young, but some women do get sucked into toxic relationships and then become demoralised and broken by the man until they can't leave.
No-one can judge Sally Challon without knowing all the facts.
she had a lot of support from friends and neighbours in their village who liked her and not him.
he did a lot of really sleazy nasty behaviour like sending out Christmas Cards where he posed with 2 near naked women......who does that?
As well as raping her anally and repressing her in many many ways.
He was a horrible man and I think he was about 8 years older than her? So he was in control from the start.
Of course it would have been better if she had just stayed away from him but their lives were very messed up and complex.

One of her sons appeared in the documentary and he appeared to be a very caring and intelligent man. I think the other son didn't want to be in it.

Iam64 Tue 17-Dec-19 16:58:48

NanKate, I hope you aren’t offended because I don’t mean to offend. Ask anyone in the police, criminal justice, probation, psychiatry, women’s aid, etc etc, that is those who spend their working lives involved with women (and some men) why the victims return to the perpetrator again and again. The last research I looked at estimated twenty separations before final separation. Also, that women are at highest risk from their partner when they leave. There just isn’t a simple explanation to your question.

NanKate Tue 17-Dec-19 16:15:41

Why would she want such an obnoxious man back after he raped her twice ?

Happygirl79 Tue 17-Dec-19 10:18:08

She had lived a life sentence just living with that man and had already been punished before the crime regardless whether it was murder or manslaughter

Paperbackwriter Tue 17-Dec-19 09:12:51

Maybe it's not our place to judge her. I'm sure there's a lot we haven't heard.

MissAdventure Mon 16-Dec-19 22:01:03

That's my take on it too, and the op didn't say that only abused women could give an opinion.
It's not judging to opine.

absthame Mon 16-Dec-19 21:44:53

Physical abuse, sexual abuse nor coercive behaviour justifies the killing of another. However it helps to explain such actions and often justifies a none-custodial sentence, but it would be dangerous to simply ignore such extreme acts.

Solonge Mon 16-Dec-19 21:16:51

If her husband had been married to me.....he would have been pushing up the daisies a lot earlier.

Solonge Mon 16-Dec-19 21:15:47

If you spend years being beaten at some point, its likely the abused will find the strength to turn the tables. He was a hideous human being and justly deserved what he got.

Iam64 Mon 16-Dec-19 20:34:37

Many thanks to Granless and why why for sharing your own stories.

If you haven't walked in the same shoes as these two brave gransnet posters, or Sally C and others like her, at least do some research before reaching the conclusion that the appeal court and SCs sons got it wrong. If the evidence had been presented at her first trial, if her then legal team had worked as they should have, the conviction would never have been murder. SC was mentally ill at the time she killed her abuser. She must live with her sorrow and her regrets. I hope the continued support of her sons will help her and also, help them.

whywhywhy Mon 16-Dec-19 18:30:47

Thank you xx

Smileless2012 Mon 16-Dec-19 17:58:30

Granless and whywhywhyflowers

whywhywhy Mon 16-Dec-19 17:55:22

I battle with depression every day and it's coming up to 30 years since I got away.

oodles Mon 16-Dec-19 17:38:31

Being comfortably off doesn't mean that there is no domestic abuse, in a way it can make economic abuse easier. Very sadly men do go on to kill, look at the case of Claire and Charlotte Hart, and how the sons Luke and Ryan have gone on to campaign. You are always looking over your shoulder when you have been married to an abusive man, whether or not he was physically or emotionally abusive or both. Out of the blue they can pop up and you wonder what the hell they're going to do. I'd recommend to anyone who had the slightest doubt whether their other half is abusive to do the freedom programme, it helped me see how so many things he'd done were nasty and controlling, that it was abuse, just as much as the violence, it really affects you deep inside even years afterwards, it is helpful to recognise it as abuse so you can start moving on from the years of being told and others being told how horrible you are

whywhywhy Mon 16-Dec-19 17:33:03

Glad to hear you've met and married a lovely man Granless. Same here. Have a lovely Christmas.

Granless Mon 16-Dec-19 16:53:58

Well said whywhywhy. Like you I got out and, yes, younger years ruined but maybe my best years are now married to a lovely man.

whywhywhy Mon 16-Dec-19 16:49:13

No one can comment if they haven't been there, so please don't make assumptions. I put up with it for 20 years, no relatives and two children. When they got to 14 and 16 I walked out of the door with them and never went back. The best years of my life ruined and gone.

Granless Mon 16-Dec-19 16:01:04

If you haven’t been in a mental, verbal or physically abusive relationship, you’re not in a position to comment.
You can be pushed to breaking point. I picked up a carving knife, twice, immediately putting it down. I had two children to think of.

Saggi Mon 16-Dec-19 15:35:18

Going equipped after a year apart..... I don’t think so!

maddyone Mon 16-Dec-19 14:12:30

She was abused for years and he treated her dreadfully, but she arranged a meeting with him at the marital home, and she took a hammer. I think therefore it was murder not man slaughter. However I think it’s fair enough after serving 8/9 years that she should be released.

Smileless2012 Mon 16-Dec-19 14:00:32

That's a very valid point about sentencing lovebeigecardigans women are viewed as kind, loving and nurturing so often their acts of violence are viewed more harshly than their male counterparts.

lovebeigecardigans1955 Mon 16-Dec-19 13:56:19

My dear old mum used to say that two wrongs don't make a right which is no doubt true.
Taking everything into account I don't blame Sally Challen for doing what she did. It probably was murder but I think she and her family have suffered enough. None of the family are unscathed by the sad situation.
What if it had been the other way round? A few men have murdered their wives ('she nagged me, Your Honour' or 'she teased me about my manhood', etc) and have walked away Scott free. Women seem to get heavier sentences for similar crimes.

EllanVannin Mon 16-Dec-19 13:39:40

Thankyou for pointing that out DavidChallen,
I have another tragic case on my mind when I asked the said question as the case in question involves a whole family.

Aepgirl Mon 16-Dec-19 13:12:25

If you haven’t been there, you don’t know how you would react.