Trans Nurses

No, we do not punish the victims

If anything, sexual offenses are taken seriously, punished appropriately so offenders feel the society's lack of acceptance for the crimes

If we need to restrict anybody, it is men
Let women roam anywhere free

Galaxy

Sorry what does the prosecution rate have to do with anything. The prosecution rate is abysmal. Pretending this woman wasnt raped by a man wont help.

Exactly. I fail to see how telling a rape victim that she is mistaken is helping rape conviction rates which are already shockingly low. The 1.6% success rate will not be helped by a defence barrister arguing that the accused cannot have committed rape because they are a 'woman'.

Rape is a crime of control over women, men use their penis as a weapon.

Sorry what does the prosecution rate have to do with anything. The prosecution rate is abysmal. Pretending this woman wasnt raped by a man wont help.

the first thing to have been done would have been to agree that she was raped.

Agreed MissA. Instead of gaslighting her for a year that she was mistaken, deluded and a liar.

But what constitutes rape does not have to be widened because no other crime is the same as rape. The other crimes need to be prosecuted and punished just as badly, but they are not the same.

GagaJo

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists

No what has to be done is to secure wonen only places.

Stop men with intact genitalia getting access to these spaces.

Ilovecheese

Rape with a penis is a specific crime. It is used as a weapon of war against women on the opposing side because it can cause pregnancy. No other crime can cause pregnancy, no other crime is the same as rape.
I am not saying one is not as bad as the other, but rape is different.

This is the first comment in here on this topic that is actually logical.

MaizieD

GagaJo

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

That doesn't justify saying that Baroness Nicol is wrong

OK, tautology. The legal definition is wrong. Laws can be wrong. Examples as in my above post.

For the victim here, the first thing to have been done would have been to agree that she was raped.
By a man.
With a penis.

Should this poor woman decide that she needs the support of a rape crisis centre, she'd better be prepared to be told that she cannot request to be attended to, examined by or supported by a female. That would be transphobia. Apparently.

Rape with a penis is a specific crime. It is used as a weapon of war against women on the opposing side because it can cause pregnancy. No other crime can cause pregnancy, no other crime is the same as rape.
I am not saying one is not as bad as the other, but rape is different.

GagaJo

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

That doesn't justify saying that Baroness Nicol is wrong

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists

That is a,whole separate issue, which isn't helped in the least by peoples what aboutery.

MissA this has infuriated me.

GagaJo

Galaxy

Its just impossoble for some people to acknowledge male violence. Its perfectly understable but not helpful. A man raped a woman. Thats what happened. No need for change in terminology and no need to further abuse a victim by forcing her to pretend that she was raped by a woman.

Of course male violence is an issue. It is a tenet of feminism to resist it.

But society can't force every trans person to bear the brunt of one person who used the cover of women's clothes, in order to commit a rape, to label all trans people or prevent their integration into a civilized society.

No one is suggesting women should suddenly come under attack for sexual violence. Just that the terminology needs to change.

Let's face it. Of all of the rape accusations against 100% cis / heterosexual men, only 1.6% result in a charge.

The issue here isn't trans. The issue is that rape is not really seen as a crime by the establishment.

Absolutely...in my opinion, if a concern with trans women is that men might claim to self-ID as trans to gain access to women’s spaces and assault them, then surely the real problem is actually with predatory men and not trans women.

MissAdventure

It doesn't need to be widened.
It needs to be adhered to, as almost everyone seems to know exactly what rape is.

And yet almost no rapes result in charges or convictions.

Hmmmm

It doesn't need to be widened.
It needs to be adhered to, as almost everyone seems to know exactly what rape is.

Let's all try and get the crime of rape taken more seriously by saying "oh no, dear, you can't have been raped, there wasn't a man there".
That's a huge step in the right direction, eh?

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

Oops, thread's moved on a bit.

This woman was raped by a man and it was covered up by the establishment of a NHS Trust

Still female posters are are arguing over what constitutes rape…

GagaJo

Chewbacca

As Baroness Nicol said in the HoL "you cannot rape if you do not have the structure of a male". This rapist was a male. Not a female.

Really? So a person being forceably penetrated (vaginally, anally, orally) by anything other than a penis is not being raped?

Baroness Nicol is wrong.

She isn't, GagaJo,

This from Rape Crisis England and Wales

In England and Wales, the legal definition of rape is when someone intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with their penis, without the other person's consent.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-rape/

Scotland:

The Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 states that rape occurs when a person intentionally or recklessly penetrates another person's vagina, anus or mouth with their penis, where the victim does not consent and the person responsible has no reasonable belief that the victim is giving consent.

NI appears to be the same:

www.amh.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/northern-ireland-sex-and-the-law.pdf

Stop the world, I want to get off.

I can't believe the apologists on here, hair splitting about whether the woman was raped or not, whether the perpetrator was a woman, or not. The facts are; a woman, in what should have been a place of safety was raped. By an intact male. Said woman was then told this could not be so as technically there were no men on the ward. There was, however, a penis on the ward, and it was used to rape a woman. If anyone, trans or intact or whatever raped my DD while she slept in her hospital bed they wouldn't need to have gender re-assignment surgery because I would rip it off them. Tin hat on, awaiting accusations of transphobia.