Trans Nurses

So how does denying that there was even a male present to commit the rape further the cause of it being given proper consideration and punishment?

Maybe it should be asked for an edit to the title so that this doesn't seem to be about trans nurses in general

It's not surprising that rape isn't treated as it should be when people are finding all these loopholes, regardless of whether they fit the legal definition of the act.

Once, apartheid was legal. It wasn't right, but it was legal. Jim Crow laws were legal. They were wrong, but they were legal.

Why would any woman think the current laws around rape are OK? 1.6% charge rate. So 98.4% of reported rapes go uncharged.

You're OK with that, are you?

So she's right, in other words.

"The issue here isn't trans. The issue is that rape is not really seen as a crime by the establishment."

10 points for Gryffindor

GrannyGravy13

Gagajo Baroness Nicol is correct, I am sure that according to U.K. law rape is penetration by a penis anything else is assault

She is legally correct. Otherwise, she is wrong. Call it what you like. If you have something shoved into you, against your will, that is a rape.

No Gagajo you are wrong.

The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent. Assault by penetration is when a person penetrates another person's vagina or anus with any part of the body other than a penis, or by using an object, without the person's consent.

Source: Metropolitan police.

Hope that helps.

Surely the issue is that a man was allowed to access a place where a woman should feel safe, and it was covered up by the people who allowed it?
Absolutely no chance whatsoever of a conviction if the victim is gaslighted about the fact that a man raped her.

Gagajo Baroness Nicol is correct, I am sure that according to U.K. law rape is penetration by a penis anything else is assault

The patient was raped. End of.
Unbelievable that the authority in question stated it couldn't have happened at all while they were under their care.
The patient should have been safeguarded and treated like any other victim that had turned up either at a police station or A&E, samples taken and anyone that was present at the time tested.
Disgusting that the patient has had to wait so long to be heard. Shame that they didn't name the hospital trust in question that has such an antiquated and uncaring attitude to those under its care. Not one any of us would feel comfortable at being treated .

Looking forward to if/when this case goes to court trial, I wonder if the victim will be forced to address her attacker as "she/her" and risk contempt of court if she fails to do so?

Chewbacca

As Baroness Nicol said in the HoL "you cannot rape if you do not have the structure of a male". This rapist was a male. Not a female.

Really? So a person being forceably penetrated (vaginally, anally, orally) by anything other than a penis is not being raped?

Baroness Nicol is wrong.

Galaxy

Its just impossoble for some people to acknowledge male violence. Its perfectly understable but not helpful. A man raped a woman. Thats what happened. No need for change in terminology and no need to further abuse a victim by forcing her to pretend that she was raped by a woman.

Of course male violence is an issue. It is a tenet of feminism to resist it.

But society can't force every trans person to bear the brunt of one person who used the cover of women's clothes, in order to commit a rape, to label all trans people or prevent their integration into a civilized society.

No one is suggesting women should suddenly come under attack for sexual violence. Just that the terminology needs to change.

Let's face it. Of all of the rape accusations against 100% cis / heterosexual men, only 1.6% result in a charge.

The issue here isn't trans. The issue is that rape is not really seen as a crime by the establishment.

Galaxy

Men commit 97 % of violent sexual assaults. If someone told me that I had been raped by a woman after Ihad been raped by a man I would consider that further abuse.

Yes, so would I.

As Baroness Nicol said in the HoL "you cannot rape if you do not have the structure of a male". This rapist was a male. Not a female.

Hithere

What gagajo said.

People pick their professions, trans or not

Transphobia in this board is off the charts

No it is not. You have clearly not read the posts,

GagaJo

OR we could support a change in terminology. Anyone is capable of rape. Then anyone can be considered a threat, regardless of genitalia or the clothes they're wearing.

Would have stopped the shocking response of the hospital in its tracks and everyone on duty on that day could have been questioned by the police.

That makes a lot of sense actually

I've heard of so many attacks in hospitals to the living and deceased as was recently prominent in the news. I can't believe this keeps happening even with cctv, security and safeguarding checks in place. It's so worrying. I'm so glad they are finally listening to the victim here.

Nurse or patient, it is absolutely disgraceful that this was covered up for over a year.

The hospital deliberately hindered the chance of a police investigation.

Women need women only safe places, I am yet to see any argument which dissuades my opinion on this.

Look. Trans people aren't going away or back in the closet. This is the new normal.

So either we adapt or criminals will be able to hide behind outdated laws.

Well said doodledog. Your posts are the voice of common sense in a surreal world.

Yes, I don't think it was a trans nurse, the article I read said that it was a trans patient but that nurses were told to say that there were no males on the ward.

In the House of Lords last night, @Baroness_Nichol raised the awful impact on women's safety of the NHS adopting gender ideology.

The male apologists in this board is off the scale. And if you want to see some real fury and anger about this, head over to Mumsnet.

Galaxy

Its just impossoble for some people to acknowledge male violence. Its perfectly understable but not helpful. A man raped a woman. Thats what happened. No need for change in terminology and no need to further abuse a victim by forcing her to pretend that she was raped by a woman.

Any discussion that includes the words 'women, regardless of their genitalia' has entered the realm of the surreal.

I refuse to get involved in any sort of discussion of what sort of non-consensual violation is 'lesser' than another (!!), but will post out that only a rape with a penis can result in pregnancy and/or transmission of HIV or other STIs. For that reason, if for no other, it is a different and separate offence from that of penetration with an object, and it can only be committed by a man.

Also, calling assault by women 'rape' would be yet another way to manipulate statistics to mask ways in which women's lives are made worse by a patriarchal society. This would clearly suit the agenda of some, but nobody who has women's interests at heart would countenance such a travesty.

The heading of this thread is "trans nurses" - but I have read other reports that this rape was carried out by a transgender patient.

Clearly, either way it is a horrific crime and badly handled by the hospital management.