Council Tax for State Pensioners

biglouis

I have signed because Council tax is very poorly targeted.

Only 25% discount for those like myself (least selfish group in society) who are single and childfree. Besed on average of two adults per household it should be 50%. With the current system it is possible for a single persioner to be directly subsidising the selfish family of four who live next door in an identical house.

I would like to return to the community charge where everyone paid something. However I would take it further and make people pay for their offspring. Children consume resources like sponges and generate huge amounts of waste - I only have to see the overflowing bins of the families around me to know that. Children add nothing into the community until they are old enough to work.

Just wondering why you think the family of four are selfish presumably they pay full council tax. Sad that you feel children add nothing to a community until they are old enough to work.
I haven’t signed why should council tax be abolished for all pensioners many of them are by no means poor

Smileless2012

"selfish family of four who live next door in an identical house", why are they selfish biglouis. Don't you like children?

I think biglouis has made that very plain on more than one occasion, Smileless.

Perhaps she forgets she was a child herself many moons ago.

They are selfish because they dont like to be reminded that they are being subsidised by someone else in terms of the facilities and resources they use up. Yes we all pay for things we dont use. However single people pay out more for things that they themselves do not use - like schools, nurseries, play centers, swing parks. Not to mention child benefit, maternity pay, and all the other subs and handouts.

Perhaps she forgets she was a child herself many moons ago

That sounds like the kind of trite crappy argument you find in a fortune cookie that you bought in the garage shop.

biglouis

They are selfish because they dont like to be reminded that they are being subsidised by someone else in terms of the facilities and resources they use up. Yes we all pay for things we dont use. However single people pay out more for things that they themselves do not use - like schools, nurseries, play centers, swing parks. Not to mention child benefit, maternity pay, and all the other subs and handouts.

I wouldn’t want to be ‘reminded’ that my children, both taxpayers, were being subsidised by the supposedly unselfish :grin:. Do you really say that to them, and then remind them?
Would they be less selfish if they agreed with your analysis?

I don’t see having or not having children as any more or less selfish, really - it’s just what humans do. Some don’t want children as it is not a lifestyle choice they want to make, just as others have them because it is for them. Both are ‘selfish’ if choosing a lifestyle is seen as such. Others would love to have them and don’t get them, and yet others have ones they don’t want. I would call those people unfortunate, but not unselfish.

biglouis I think you have forgotten the many older people who ‘take’ from the state. In particular, a lot of people are receiving care which is paid for by the local services provider. They have carers going into their homes, and many need full care in care homes. Whilst many fully fund this themselves, many others do not. This is paid for by Social Services which is funded by local councils. Also the Independent Living Allowance is paid to many older persons, and that is regardless of income. It is paid to enable people to continue to live in their own homes when they need help to do so. They may need a gardener, a cleaner, a carer, a hairdresser or someone else to help them live independently. Older people also get free prescriptions and older people are the most likely to have several/many items on repeat. Older people take a lot out of the budget. When they were younger they paid in and now they’re older they take out. That’s the way it works.The younger family next door are the ones paying taxes and insurance so that everyone, young and old alike, can benefit.

Good post maddyone.

biglouis

*Perhaps she forgets she was a child herself many moons ago*

That sounds like the kind of trite crappy argument you find in a fortune cookie that you bought in the garage shop.

How did you guess?
😂😂😂

Were you a child once?

Good post maddyone

I do think that many older people give more to charity if they find they are able to do so and volunteer more for charities because they have the time.

Ensuring children and young people have the care, education and opportunities they need is what we all should do as part of a caring society, whether or not we have children of our own. They are our future.

That was really unnecessary biglouis - has it occurred to you that perhaps you are the selfish one ? Or are you just jealous of your neighbours family ?

Neighbour’s

biglouis

*Perhaps she forgets she was a child herself many moons ago*

That sounds like the kind of trite crappy argument you find in a fortune cookie that you bought in the garage shop.

Ps I never go to the garage shop - the chauffeur fills the car for me. 🙂

My personal experience is that you have to be pretty unselfish if you choose to have a child. Your life revolves around the child and it’s needs for many years. At some stage other people, perhaps childless and not necessarily by choice, funded biglouis’s education, the disposal of the rubbish she produced, the maintenance of the roads on which she travelled, the library she went to and numerous other things. Other people’s children (such as mine) are now paying for her state pension, any benefits she receives (she has mentioned being disabled), the shortfall in council tax due to her discount, any medication she is prescribed and, should the need arise, any care which she may need beyond what she is required to fund herself.

Hmm, maybe Biglouis has a point so I’m going to be taking my grandchildren down to the Job Centre tomorrow. It’s about time they started contributing to society. Lazy so and so’s, aged between 18 mths and 13yo and not one of them has ever been down a coal mine or in a cotton mill!

And no, I can’t see any argument for pensioners to not pay CT, beyond financial inability.

I agrée with your general point MOnica but our council tax doesn’t fund Social Services, care homes or the other services you mention.
Ours funds roads, libraries, education services, environmental health, trading standards, rubbish collection and disposal.
I won’t be signing the proposal linked by the OP as I use all of those services.

Jaxjacky

I agrée with your general point MOnica but our council tax doesn’t fund Social Services, care homes or the other services you mention.
Ours funds roads, libraries, education services, environmental health, trading standards, rubbish collection and disposal.
I won’t be signing the proposal linked by the OP as I use all of those services.

Our Council tax funds social care, care homes, (that are not self-funded), children's social services, learning disability services etc.

I'm not sure where you live Jaxjacky, perhaps it's different there.

Why should wealthier pensioners like DH and I get out of paying council tax when so many families with children and earning less than us still have to pay?

Council Tax Benefit is there for those on lower incomes. Ir is means tested so excludes, rightly, people with incomes like mine.

Callistemon21

Good post maddyone

I do think that many older people give more to charity if they find they are able to do so and volunteer more for charities because they have the time.

Ensuring children and young people have the care, education and opportunities they need is what we all should do as part of a caring society, whether or not we have children of our own. They are our future.

Indeed.

And of course state pensioners should pay council tax.

The petition isn't doing very well, is it?

Let’s hope not.

In a welfare society, there are always going to be those who use more of the resources, paid for by the community, than others, The alternative is for everyone to pay for just what they use. I can imagine what problems that would cause. We only have to look at countries with no national health service!

However,I do think that community services should be paid for according to means. My, probably very unpopular view, is that the so-called poll tax was a good idea, but we all know what happened there.

biglouis

I have signed because Council tax is very poorly targeted.

Only 25% discount for those like myself (least selfish group in society) who are single and childfree. Besed on average of two adults per household it should be 50%. With the current system it is possible for a single persioner to be directly subsidising the selfish family of four who live next door in an identical house.

I would like to return to the community charge where everyone paid something. However I would take it further and make people pay for their offspring. Children consume resources like sponges and generate huge amounts of waste - I only have to see the overflowing bins of the families around me to know that. Children add nothing into the community until they are old enough to work.

Blimey. Presumably you will exempt yourself from medical treatment, TV and film, train driving, everything that these ghastly offspring provide as a service to you when they grow up?

Shouldn't we all pay what we can? How does being a pensioner make anyone a special case? Mine is an awful lot -but I don't resent paying it. Those on low incomes can get a reduction, anyway, as my friend always does.

(biglouis - those children will soon be paying for your pension!) Yes, a lot is spent on education, healthcare and services - all of which I made good use of (for free) when young.

Some women , who were single parents in the 60's and 70's now get less than a full state pension because they were looking after their children and not working and paying a stamp.

It was not made clear to these women at the time that their pension would then be less. Very unfair.

So how is a person who gets a state pension of under £600 supposed to pay 25% of their income, for a single occupancy, on Council Tax and survive on the rest?

I do think that at least it should be a 50% and not just 25% reduction for a single person. Perhaps the amount a person pays should be related to their overall income in a year? A kind of means test.

Not all pensioners are as well off as most of the people here.