State pension rise

LizzieDrip

*My point is more that not everyone who has worked for many years in the public sector will have a 'gold plated' pension, despite what the media like to imply.*

Absolutely doodle! Many of us who worked in the public sector were unaware that being ‘contracted out’ would affect our future SP. Also, I was given no choice about being contracted out - it simply happened! I have 41 years NI contributions but still don’t get the full SP.

Yes LizzieDrip I’m another who ‘contracted out.’ I was never asked, never consulted, never told. If I had been asked I would have not opted out and instead paid the full NHS contribution. Since it was costing me several hundred pounds a month anyway, it never occurred to me that it was reduced. I wonder how much it was actually reduced? Not very much I’ll bet, but I don’t know the answer to that to this day. So along with missing the new pension by three weeks, receiving a reduced pension too, I still don’t know how much the government took without my agreement in contracted out payments.
The way women have been treated by the DWP for years is misogynistic and the way WASPI women have been treated in my opinion is unprintable!

Sorry the wording of that is wrong, what I meant was I still don’t know how much the government didn’t take, but because I paid a fairly large NI contribution each month, I’m assuming the saving to me was very small!

I'm Waspi I nearly went under as was redundant at 59, & so many applicants for jobs I didn't get interviews, hopeless situation, health suffered, got a bit of work but I couldn't afford time off for a new hip as on zero hour contract! No sick pay - awful time for 6 yrs
I had even paid up my contributions to get full state pension then they reduced the number that you needed!!
Not getting that few hundred back that I paid for nothing 😔. All quite soul destroying I always worked around my children's lives when married too, but these jobs didn't provide pensions
Single folk are penalised yes 2 DO live as cheaply as one with their 2 incomes! By sharing rent & all bills that is
I wrote to Chancellor but realised nobody really cared especially when done things 'the right way'. No benefits

Responding to Ilovecheese the pension credits bring pensions up to the same as full pension
I wonder sometimes why I did things the harder way there's no incentive from it

The way women are prepared to turn on other women who didn’t know what they did, or who weren’t working for employers who automatically enrolled staff into schemes is disappointing IMO.

There is also the problem of employers who don’t put wages ‘through the books’ to avoid paying their contributions. Sometimes that is why they keep people on zero hours or low hours contracts- so they never hit the threshold for paying NI. The workers then have to have two or more jobs, so put the hours in, but don’t build up a pension, sick pay entitlements etc. It’s disgraceful. Budgets often ‘lift people out of NI’, which makes my blood boil as it is sold as a benefit, but it denies benefits to the people involved.

A universal tax of some sort would ensure that we all have access to education, healthcare, housing and pensions- income tax could be extra (adjusted accordingly) so nobody misses out.

Greta8

It's all so random and outrageously unfair, isn't it? Speaking as a WASPI woman here. I thought I was on track for a full state pension but then the rules changed with the new pension and being penalised for contracting out. Likewise I can understand how aggrieved women are who didn't know about the 1995 pensions act. I did actually know about that act, but for our pensions to be delayed yet again by the 2011 act was disgraceful. So little time to make plans and adjustments for the extra time tacked on. I believe George Osborne also boasted that changing the rules for women's pensions was the easiest savings he'd ever made. It's not surprising we all feel so bitter - they would never have done it to men.

Regarding the triple lock, I believe its days are numbered after the election. We have a decent standard of living thanks to occupational pensions, but I do feel for people who only have the bare minimum pension and on pension credit. I feel even more sorry for people who have done the right thing and got very small occupational pensions, just enough that they don't qualify for any state help. It makes my blood boil.

The letter that arrives annually stating the amount the pension will be in the coming year is not straightforward - there are several lines of Contracted Out, Contracted In, Pre 1997, Post 1997 etc and then the Graduated Pension contributions paid in good faith which amount to about £1 a week !!

No wonder no one can understand it all then Callistemon.

M0nica The problem is Norah, that for many women that was the wrong decision. Marriages broke up, circumstances changed.

Consider Norah, what your life would have been like if your husband had died when you were in your early 30s.

I assume, marrying at 16, first 2 babies before I was 19 - had my husband died in my early 30s I'd have managed his business. I understand his business quite well, I do the books, keep records, always have done.

However, my point was different to that. I was grateful you explained why a person wouldn't have paid married woman's stamp.

There is no one solution for everyone.

Treating everyone fairly, not changing the rules would be a start.

maddyone

No wonder no one can understand it all then Callistemon.

I still had some ancient pay slips from when I paid Graduated Pension contributions and, quite honestly, I could have done with that money then as it seems to be worth little now!

The way women have been treated by the DWP for years is misogynistic and the way WASPI women have been treated in my opinion is unprintable!

This No government would get away with treating men in the same way!

DWP misogyny in action:

*Successive governments extended a 1983 “men only national insurance subsidy” for 35 years and broke a promise to women born in the 1950s to offer them similar terms.

More than 4.65 million men aged over 60 have had the last five years of their national insurance contributions paid by the state, the Department for Work and Pensions has disclosed.*

davidhencke.com/2020/05/22/exclusive-the-4-6-million-men-who-retired-at-60-to-get-a-pension-top-up-paid-by-the-taxpayer/

A more recent report shows that the actual number of men who benefited from the auto credits scheme (described above) was 9.8 million!

Thanks for that link LizzieDrip.
How guilty are our governments been of misogyny! It’s unbelievable but unfortunately true!

Have our governments been, successive governments that is.

Absolutely maddyone! This issue is beyond party politics - it’s about gross discrimination against a sector of society by governments of whatever persuasion! It makes my blood boil!

I was contracted out for most of my working life and don’t regret it as I receive more than I would if contracted in by not joining a company scheme. By not joining a company scheme one is in effect taking a pay cut as the employer matches the employee contribution on top of salary, and the contributions are paid before tax.

Susie42

I was contracted out for most of my working life and don’t regret it as I receive more than I would if contracted in by not joining a company scheme. By not joining a company scheme one is in effect taking a pay cut as the employer matches the employee contribution on top of salary, and the contributions are paid before tax.

That is true, and people who were contracted out haven't lost out, as the payments that they would have made into the SP were diverted to their occupational one.

The problem is that they weren't told that, and it was perfectly reasonable of them to assume, as they had worked and paid NI for decades, that they would qualify for the full SP as well as the occupational one. Contributions will have showed on the payslip as 'pension' and there would be a box showing the NI that they also paid, so it's not an unreasonable assumption. If they then made plans based on that assumption it is also understandable that they would feel short-changed when they found that their SP had been reduced.

Before people pile in to say that they took professional advice, consulted their accountants or scrutinised their pension forecasts before handing in their notice, well done to those who did! But not everyone will have done, just as not everyone read the financial pages of the paper on the day the changes were announced, and not everyone was informed of either the changes to the SPA or the implications of contracting out.

Haven’t read all this so may have been covered.
When the state pension went up in April I became a tax payer for the first time since retirement. I was given a rise with one government hand while they took it back with the other.
The UK average income is £35000-odd. I resent paying tax on my income of £12000.

It's an absolute disgrace that WASPI women (including myself) have lost SIX YEARS' worth of State Pension. In addition, many (like myself) have discovered, in some cases too late, (that their employers opted out of SERPS, meaning that their State Pension would not be paid at the higher rate unless they paid extra voluntary contributions. Luckily, I was made aware of this by means of a BBC Radio 4 programme, and I was able to make the necessary extra NI contributions in time. (The window for doing this closed in July of this year). The need for this wasn't well publicised, and neither was the six years increase in the SPA. So do I feel guilty about the triple lock increase? Absolutely not. Especially after having paid a large inheritance tax bill on my late parents' estate. I give money every month by DD to a number of charities, and I have helped my children financially to a very large extent. That's my choice. My loss of State Pension was a decision made without my consent or blessing. So no, I don't feel any guilt. I am wealthy enough to be able to afford to help others, but this is my choice. I consider that I have been robbed by successive governments, especially having paid out 100% for my late parents' care and nursing homes in their declining years. Other residents in the same nursing homes had their fees paid 100%, no doubt in some cases because their families had no savings or had lived recklessly. My parents paid the price for having budgeted carefully and for having lived frugally. I intend to spend what I don't give to my children. Guilt free.

watermeadow

Haven’t read all this so may have been covered.
When the state pension went up in April I became a tax payer for the first time since retirement. I was given a rise with one government hand while they took it back with the other.
The UK average income is £35000-odd. I resent paying tax on my income of £12000.

You won’t be paying any tax if your income is below £ £12,570 watermeadow, as that the tax free personal allowance this year. If your income is slightly above that you will only pay tax on any amount above the £12,570, not on your whole income.

I am divorced, in my 70s. I have not had a ‘proper job’ so to speak. Helped ex-husband in the practice, was paid a small pocket-money wage. Did not pay NIC.
My SP is only £137.45 per week. If it wasn’t for the fact that I had a fairly good Lawyer , I don’t know how I would have managed on the SP alone. I had a reasonable settlement and receive maintenance(alimony) from my Ex-husband. The reason I say ‘fairly good’ is because, if she was really good, she would have inflation-proofed it. As it stands, I am getting the same amount for the past 20 years. If there are any legal minds here, please can you tell me whether it’s worth me going back to Court, to ask for an increase in my maintenance. Thankyou

Ilovecheese

Anything is "affordable" if the will is there. Comment pieces in newspapers are so often written by people who have or will have large private pensions, the sort of people that give their winter fuel allowance to charity and think that therefore nobody else needs it either.
The basic state pension is too low to survive on, which is why we have pension credit, that people have to apply for. Some older people still see this as charity and try to survive without.
It is another instance of generations being pitted against each other.

I thank goodness for my NHS pension. I would not survive on my SP alone.

Of course it's affordable. Just look at the cost of HS2 - pouring money into a vanity project.

Yes, and the majority of increase in SP will come straight back into the economy, as it's unlikely that many pensioners will be saving huge chunks of an extra £15 or so.

Many of us will also be paying a large chunk back through income tax.

Remember the average pensioner household income is around £400 a week, £26,000 a year. Well above the tax free allowance (Note: average means roughly half the population of pensioners gets less than £400 and the other half get more.)

Almost all pensioners (97%) received income from State Pension, with an average amount of £195 per week. Some peaks in the distribution may be explained by the basic State Pension rate, which was £137.50 per week in FYE 2022, as well as the new State Pension full rate, which was £179.60.

Older pensioners also have lower pensions than younger pensioners on average. [Source: Gov.uk 30 Aug 2023]