DWP Proposing To Scrutinize Bank Accounts?

Now for a bit of whataboutery.

Apparently the government says it lost some £6billion in 2023 in benefit fraud, 2.7% of the benefits payments. It reckons that their legislation will recover £100million a year. Wow!

Yet in the 13 years since 2010 it's estimated by HMRC that at least some £34billion a year has been lost in tax fraud and evasion. There is nothing in this proposed legislation to counter this

Prem Sikka sits in the House of Lords

leftfootforward.org/2023/12/prem-sikka-how-the-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill-is-the-governments-latest-erosion-of-hard-won-rights/

Surely if you are claiming any benefit providing evidence of you assets shouldn't be an issue. Off hand I know of a retired person who moved a large chinks if her cas into a daughters bank a/c, wauted six months then applied for benefits successfully. Another at the other end of the age scale, mother was claiming assistance with childcare costs declaring working minimum hours when working full time in a well paid job. Childminder did report her as she was always late in being paid. Abuse of the system does go on probably more than we realise.

Oops - large chunks of cash.

And is that all fraud Maizie? They usually lump together errors and fraud, and that includes DWP as well as client errors.

Why do they have to paint everyone, who claims on their insurance, as fraudsters. I know I know the answer to that, but how did these people become so awful, so heartless. It makes me think, once again, that they want older people to die off. Some of them will out of anxiety.

4allweknow

Surely if you are claiming any benefit providing evidence of you assets shouldn't be an issue. Off hand I know of a retired person who moved a large chinks if her cas into a daughters bank a/c, wauted six months then applied for benefits successfully. Another at the other end of the age scale, mother was claiming assistance with childcare costs declaring working minimum hours when working full time in a well paid job. Childminder did report her as she was always late in being paid. Abuse of the system does go on probably more than we realise.

Or it could be less than you chose to believe. How would you know if you don't accept the government figures?

DaisyAnneReturns

And is that all fraud Maizie? They usually lump together errors and fraud, and that includes DWP as well as client errors.

Why do they have to paint everyone, who claims on their insurance, as fraudsters. I know I know the answer to that, but how did these people become so awful, so heartless. It makes me think, once again, that they want older people to die off. Some of them will out of anxiety.

Another load of utter nonsense DAR. Nobody has anything to be anxious about if they have done nothing wrong - and if they haven’t, how likely do you think they are to be investigated (see numbers of benefit claimants above)? And why would this government want older people to die off when so many of them are Conservative voters? A nonsense often trotted out by certain posters.

I have had the mobility compound of DLA - PIPS as it’s now called- for many years . I became disabled as a toddler due to polio’ vaccine damage. ( No, there was no compensation). I ALWAYS worked . It’s a common misconception that those in receipt of benefits don’t earn their own living. I did and worked past retirement age, contributing my fair share out of my salaried professional pay. The mobility allowance was , as my doctor said, a way of keeping me in work by making travelling to work less risky and painful.

Just had to post regarding this! People here are asking why the DWP should rely on the word of the claimant alone when determining whether or not a person is entitled to means tested state benefits. Well they didn’t have to! Years ago when I was a civil servant working for the old DHSS we interviewed EVERY claimant and needed actual proof of bank accounts, savings etc. Of course it still left room for fraud but at a vastly reduced rate, I would guess. (I worked on the Fraud team too). It was the decision of the new department, the DWP, to get rid of this system (cost cutting, less staff needed!) and replace it with a much more streamlined one, mostly online. If access to bank accounts is allowed in this way now, it will open a can of worms for future surveillance by HMRC etc etc. Many people won’t like that one bit! As regards disability assessments, perhaps the posters here should be aware of just how difficult it is to be awarded disability benefits as a result of them and just how many are wrong, resulting in over 60% of claims denied being overturned at appeal tribunals. The media whip themselves up into a frenzy about ‘scroungers’ and the like. The reality is very different for many among us.

I'm sure I've mentioned I was involved in assessing people requiring care. How is this for abuse of the system? Old gent had a mobility car. Explaining what would happened asked where car was kept and as he was unable to drive, who took him out in it. No-one took him out and it was kept 150 miles away, his GD being the sole user. Car coudd be kept at care home for staff to use with him or surrendered. It was surrendered. The system is manipulated in many ways.

Unjustified claims for benefits is just one way of fiddling the system another is undeclared income, not just wages trading online often through EBay into a PayPal account. I don’t actually know if they can access a PayPal but it is a bank by any other name.

There are probably quite a lot of claimants making money online.

If someone is hard up and sells their own items to pay the bills, I can't see anything remotely wrong with that. It's different if they are buying to sell, but I don't know how that would be proven.

You really have no idea do you. Who do you think worries most? Those few who who try and work the system don't care. They think that they are too clever to fail.

But many of those who do nothing wrong don't know whether it's Monday of Christmas if you ask them questions to help them, let alone if they think someone is checking up on them. And the waves of anxiety - which, thankfully, you have obviously never experienced, are palpable if you are near them.

Why does this happen? Because they desperately, desperately don't want to do anything wrong. Many are ashamed and won't even claim the because of the shame they feel.

But who is it at the front of your mind? The tiny percentage, that appear in every strata of society, that try and con the system. The people some literally believe society must be rid of. But all they have ever ended up doing is penalising good people.

Don't you dare tell me I am talking nonsense until you have walked in these people's shoes GSM.

Have you walked in their shoes DAR? I have, pro bono, helped semi-literate people to fill in forms to claim benefits to which they were entitled. The people I encountered at the Law Centre were very obviously genuine, decent people trying their best to earn a living. And then there are the others …
Don’t dare tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. What have you done to help such people?

Katie59

Unjustified claims for benefits is just one way of fiddling the system another is undeclared income, not just wages trading online often through EBay into a PayPal account. I don’t actually know if they can access a PayPal but it is a bank by any other name.

There are probably quite a lot of claimants making money online.

Many years ago I sold loads of surplus household stuff on EBay. I wasn't trading but needed the extra cash from stuff I had hanging around and never used. I'm sure I remember being warned by EBay that they had to report business accounts to HMRC. I don't suppose it's too difficult to get round the business account rules, but I once had an item blocked because I'd sold more than a certain amount of similar items. I was only a very small time seller, but it does show that EBay keeps an eye on accounts or other sellers report their peers to EBay (not sure which). These days, people can sell £1000 of items online without paying tax, but I'm not sure whether the same rule applies for claiming benefits.

PS. I receive means-tested housing benefit and have to submit two months of bank statements once a year. I know they're scrutinised because I've been queried about a couple of payments I've received. One was money to buy myself a birthday present and another was from selling some books online (just over £30).

Germanshepherdsmum

Have you walked in their shoes DAR? I have, pro bono, helped semi-literate people to fill in forms to claim benefits to which they were entitled. The people I encountered at the Law Centre were very obviously genuine, decent people trying their best to earn a living. And then there are the others …
Don’t dare tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. What have you done to help such people?

Have you ever been one of those people DAR? Your posts suggest that you haven't.

welbeck

gosh, thanks HPQ.
i was composing in my mind why someone disabled might well have good use for a bidet.
just as well i left it.

🤣🤣

On radio 4 today a Lincolnshire MP said that there are 7 million people claiming disability benefit , Of them all 5 million could work maybe desk jobs , Now that really is food for thought , We all know people who could work but are getting benefits and all that goes with them, many are much better off than Gransnetters

But are they 5 million desks jobs that those disabled people can do in the place where they live, ginnycomelately?

5 million desk jobs!!!. Figure sounds like it's been plucked from thin air. Wonder how they propose the 5 million get to these desk jobs. Can't all be based at home.
Absolute tosh.

Much depends on the nature of the disability and the nature of the jobs.

ginnycomelately

On radio 4 today a Lincolnshire MP said that there are 7 million people claiming disability benefit , Of them all 5 million could work maybe desk jobs , Now that really is food for thought , We all know people who could work but are getting benefits and all that goes with them, many are much better off than Gransnetters

And did this MP differentiate between those getting PIP while they work part/full time and those who are who are not in employment? I bet he didn't.

anyone remember 2016 when the united nations found the tories wanting in the way it treated the disabled in the uk,I remember a brief mention in the news.Read the book 'crippled' about how the disabled have been attacked by the government, why do the powerful blame the weak? why do people go on about benefit fraud, which is paltry compared to corporate fraud? Lots of figures abound from 30 to 50 trillion in offshore accounts, and what about the black economy? I could and still can't understand why ordinary people are duped by the old divide and rule tactics, i surrender.

Theexwife

I thought the DWP already did that if there was a suspicion of benefit fraud.

I know of two people receiving DLA and working full time, claiming to be disabled does not always mean that you are.

It irritates me when people claim they are unable to work yet spend all day on social media, there are many jobs that involve just doing that for companies.

Theexwife - DLA (Disabled Living Allowance) or PIP (Personal Independence Payment) are both intended to help a person cope with the extra costs of living with a long-term disability or illness, whether they are working or not. It's not against the rules to work while receiving these particular benefits. In one place I worked, the Office Manager was receiving DLA, she worked but was severely disabled - she needed a Personal Assistant to hoist her on and off the toilet, in and out of her wheelchair, feed her and fetch and carry for her - her DLA helped her to pay the PA, taxis etc. The whole point of these two benefits is to enable disabled people to do normal things non-disabled people do - such as work. (You can only receive one out of the two.) Of course, other benefits are different, means-tested and absolutely should not be cheated on! And I agree with your point about the social media.

That Lincolnshire MP is far out of reality, there are some disabled that could do desk jobs from home, many already do I’m sure.
With technology changes those jobs are becoming fewer and AI will reduce them further, another obstacle to widespread disability employment is many have intellectual or mental disability. I hope it is made easier for those who are wanting to work, I’m not expecting it to affect many.

I do hope those on UC, I had never heard if it until recently, are not worried by this post.