Is anyone else not on HRT?

The best explanation I have read is one that says to think of bone as a bank account where you “deposit” and “withdraw” bone tissue. During childhood and the teenage years, new bone is added to the skeleton faster than old bone is removed. As a result, bones become larger, heavier, and denser. For most people, bone formation continues at a faster pace than removal until bone mass peaks during the third decade of life.

After age 20, bone “withdrawals” can begin to exceed “deposits.” For many people, this bone loss can be prevented by continuing to get calcium, vitamin D, and exercise and by avoiding tobacco and excessive alcohol use. Osteoporosis develops when bone removal occurs too quickly, replacement occurs too slowly, or both. You are more likely to develop osteoporosis if you did not reach your maximum peak bone mass during your bone-building years.

I have to take high doses of cortico-steroids periodically. I know they have a major effects on how the body uses calcium and vitamin D which can lead to bone loss, osteoporosis, and broken bones so my doctor prescribes calcium and Vitamin D supplements to counteract that but has never mentioned HRT as a preventative.

Never been in it.I suffered from very painful periods so was pleased to see the end of them.
I was going through a lot of family trouble at the same time so my worst hot flushes had two legs on them.

@glorianny
I do know that bones are built up and depleted continuously but I thought that overall bone health is established in your youth . Happy to be corrected

@oakdryad
I’ve just read your post - you’ve explained very clearly what I was trying to express .
Thanks

I had a few symptoms but managed without HRT. That was over 10 years ago. However I wish I was on it. I feel I have suffered from anxiety since then, dry eyes and atrophy. Plus a dowagers hump emerging. I have witnessed ladies who have been on HRT who are definitely younger than their years physically and mentally. And when they come off the treatment have aged rapidly. It seems to hold back the years.

Nothisagain

@glorianny
I do know that bones are built up and depleted continuously but I thought that overall bone health is established in your youth . Happy to be corrected

It may be but targeted drugs can increase bone density and stop osteoporosis. If it is treated it can be cured. Calcium and Vit D supplements are required all the time and weight bearing exercise helps. The bone density may be laid down in youth but it can be developed in adulthood.

No HRT here either. I don't take any tablets or any kind of medication unless absolutely necessary. I'm a great believer in alcohol as a medicine. Seriously though, my Mum took HRT for decades and now has osteopenia, so it didn't prevent that did it? My Dad has a form of thrombophilia, so I probably wouldn't be able to have it, even if I wanted it. (which I don't) Thankfully I don't have any medical issues currently and I'm hurtling towards 63. If I start to crumble in later life then so be it. I'll just have another glass of red. {grin}

The dr suggested I go on it! I saw no reason to as I sailed through the menopause no sweats mood swings nothing! I stopped my periods at 47! No probs whatsoever! I was diagnosed with underactive thyroid tho

DiscoDancer57. Please don’t minimise the results of menopause.
You say you have never known anyone die from menopause.

Are you unaware that women have been sectioned, committed suicide, or had their careers wrecked. A shockingly high percentage of elderly women who fracture their hip die as a result. Osteoporosis is caused by lack of oestrogen.
Many who live with incontinence, osteoarthritis and prolapse will tell you that their quality of life is severely impacted. Vaginal atrophy and loss of libido cause the breakdown of marriages. Alzheimer’s is a living death.
I am sure others can provide more examples. You haven’t had problems so far, that’s great but don’t minimise the suffering other people experience.

I had my last bone scan at age 60. My bone density was that of a 43 year old. I asked for another scan at 70 but was shown the report of my previous scan which stated that there was no need for further scans unless I stopped taking oestrogen.
No worries there. I’m on it for life.

I had an early menopause at 39 when my periods stopped. I had some hot flushes but not very bad. I thought at first I was pregnant but not that. I was put on HRT for 10 years to protect against cancer and heart problems then it was discounted and stopped. Never noticed any difference. I felt lucky really as many friends had terrible flooding, hot flushes where they had to change the bed in the middle of the night and depression. Now DD1 is concerned as she has had immense problems period wise and a few flushes - she is 36 - blood tests are normal so I am feeling guilty that I might have passed it on to her.

Of course those are all possibilities Esspee. But Gransnet, but the very nature of this site means it has a massive predominance of post menopausal female members with a huge range of ages. The vast majority of whom are saying they have had no major problems from menopause.

Fair enough, you have a totally different point of view and that there are women who suffer horrible effects from menopause. But you can't refute the lived experiences of women on here saying 'no menopause problems'.

Haven't read the last 2 pages, but Esspee pm'd me and informed me that horse urine isn't used anymore, but yams are. I am really pleased to hear that and hope Esspee puts her message to me on here for all to read.

Esspee your proselytising is admirable but many women on this thread have explained how they are just fine without HRT. I too have had a bone scan showing healthy/youthful density but have never taken HRT because I’ve had breast cancer. Most of the conditions you talk about are associated with the march of time and you’re right that HRT can delay some or many of them. Just like maintaining a healthy weight can help you avoid osteoarthritis. Much incontinence can be avoided by exercise. Hip fractures in elderly women often precede death because they lead to hospitalisation, which inevitably (perhaps paradoxically) leads to deterioration.

One of the irritating aspects of the current wave of publicity around menopause is the shouty absolutism so prevalent in modern life. Why so fervent that not taking HRT will be catastrophic? Can we not agree that HRT is beneficial to many and should be available to those who need it, along with clear information about benefits, risks and alternatives?

GagaJo. I was referring to the long term effects of the menopause on this thread.
From discussions with my peers my experience is that many of them admit to stress incontinence, one has severe incontinence and does not leave the house any more, a few are on treatment for vaginal atrophy, some have given up on a sex life, one is awaiting an operation for prolapse and several have osteoporosis. I fear that at least two are showing Alzheimer symptoms., oh yes and one has osteoarthritis and can’t drive.

Mostly when people say they “sailed through the menopause” they are referring to hot flushes and the like. Very few women seem aware that it is the long term effects which will impact on their quality of life in older age.

Good post, argymargy.

Yoginimeisje

Haven't read the last 2 pages, but Esspee pm'd me and informed me that horse urine isn't used anymore, but yams are. I am really pleased to hear that and hope Esspee puts her message to me on here for all to read.

Happy to do so. Way back in the past Premarin was used widely. Once the method of production was publicised many women switched to plant based HRT for ethical reasons. I believe Premarin is still produced but oestrogen is prescribed as transdermal preparations or implants, so patches, gel, sprays and implants these days though there may be some dinosaur doctors prescribing it. It is up to women to refuse it if offered.
Personally I advise women not to accept oestrogen in pill form as the dosage is much higher than transdermal preparations to counter the first pass through the liver.
I have no idea how long plant based oestrogen has been available but certainly for more than the 33 years that I have been taking it.

argymargy. I agree with your last paragraph 100%

There is however a complete unawareness amongst women about the long term effects of low oestrogen. Women say they sailed through menopause without realising that their stress incontinence, osteoarthritis etc. might have been prevented.

Education is key.

Yoginimeisje

Haven't read the last 2 pages, but Esspee pm'd me and informed me that horse urine isn't used anymore, but yams are. I am really pleased to hear that and hope Esspee puts her message to me on here for all to read.

Esspee Thank you for clarifying the alternatives to Premarin. Pfizer still make the drug from pregnant mare's urine and still sell it in the UK so there must be a market somewhere. My concern would be the current rush to get hold of HRT and the consequential shortages could lead to a rise in uptake of equine-derived estrogen.

argymargy I agree and would like to see some longitudinal lifestyle studies which try to discover why some women suffer debilitating menopausal symptoms and some don't; why some women develop the age-related conditions that HRT is said to prevent and some don't develop those conditions even though they never take HRT.

OakDryad
argymargy I agree and would like to see some longitudinal lifestyle studies which try to discover why some women suffer debilitating menopausal symptoms and some don't; why some women develop the age-related conditions that HRT is said to prevent and some don't develop those conditions even though they never take HRT
That would make sense. One sister who has osteoporosis in her spine, took HRT until she got cancer. Another sister is fit and healthy with no problems so far. All of us sailed through the menopause. It doesn’t make sense.

Not on HRT, not something I’m interested in tbh. Almost 5 years into menopause now & haven’t really noticed any major symptoms, apart from the obvious lack of periods. But then I’ve always been a bit overweight & moody so no change there.

Premarin is still available in many forms - spray, patches, gels. The cruelty is the same. The only answer is to ask the prescribing doctor the exact source of your medication.

I had oestrogen fed breast cancer so take tablets to eliminate oestrogen from my body. I do not have a prolapse, osteoporosis, stress incontinence or any of the other horrors mentioned.
I probably am stiffer than I used to be but I am 75 and told I look young for my age so there is hope for us without HRT.

Esspee

*DiscoDancer57*. Please don’t minimise the results of menopause.
You say you have never known anyone die from menopause.

Are you unaware that women have been sectioned, committed suicide, or had their careers wrecked. A shockingly high percentage of elderly women who fracture their hip die as a result. Osteoporosis is caused by lack of oestrogen.
Many who live with incontinence, osteoarthritis and prolapse will tell you that their quality of life is severely impacted. Vaginal atrophy and loss of libido cause the breakdown of marriages. Alzheimer’s is a living death.
I am sure others can provide more examples. You haven’t had problems so far, that’s great but don’t minimise the suffering other people experience.

How come men get osteoporosis if it's lack of oestrogen?

Glorianny. A doctor told me men with osteoporosis have low testosterone levels. I’ve never researched this.