Is anyone else not on HRT?

Not on HTT suffering a few menopause symptoms but happy to go au natural

And the idea that it is mostly women who die after hip fractures is also wrong. Men are much more likely to die.
Gender

The literature regarding the ratios of female to male patients which suffer a fragility hip fracture is consistent at approximately 70:30.14 15 Whilst it is well documented that both sexes have excess mortality post hip fracture, male gender has repeatedly been shown to have a greater mortality excess than females.15 A large Norwegian study16 involving 81,867 patients with fragility hip fracture concluded a 4.6 fold higher excess one-year mortality in males and 2.8-fold excess in females versus age-matched non-hip fracture controls whilst Kristensen et al17 reported mortality in males as high as 2-fold higher compared to females. Similarly, Liu et al18 reported an almost twofold increase (HR 1.91). A multitude of separate studies consistently describe the male gender as a risk factor for excess mortality following hip fracture.19-25

One of the other factors is the length of time it takes to have surgery. Earlier is better,

Esspee

*GagaJo*. I was referring to the long term effects of the menopause on this thread.
From discussions with my peers my experience is that many of them admit to stress incontinence, one has severe incontinence and does not leave the house any more, a few are on treatment for vaginal atrophy, some have given up on a sex life, one is awaiting an operation for prolapse and several have osteoporosis. I fear that at least two are showing Alzheimer symptoms., oh yes and one has osteoarthritis and can’t drive.

Mostly when people say they “sailed through the menopause” they are referring to hot flushes and the like. Very few women seem aware that it is the long term effects which will impact on their quality of life in older age.

I understand that, Esspee.

But as I said, by the nature of the age of Gransnet members, this site should have a predominance of women showing those symptoms. We are that age range.

If we were suffering vaginal atrophy, incontinence, prolapse etc, as result of menopause, it would be forming part of the conversation on this thread. And it largely isn't.

We are older age. And most of us are fine.

This link to the NHS explains women/men and osteoporosis

www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteoporosis/causes/

Women
Women are more at risk of developing osteoporosis than men because the hormone changes that happen at the menopause directly affect bone density.

The female hormone oestrogen is essential for healthy bones. After the menopause, oestrogen levels fall. This can lead to a rapid decrease in bone density.

Men
In most cases, the cause of osteoporosis in men is unknown. However, there's a link to the male hormone testosterone, which helps keep the bones healthy.

Men continue producing testosterone into old age, but the risk of osteoporosis is increased in men with low levels of testosterone.

Esspee

*DiscoDancer57*. Please don’t minimise the results of menopause.
You say you have never known anyone die from menopause.

Are you unaware that women have been sectioned, committed suicide, or had their careers wrecked. A shockingly high percentage of elderly women who fracture their hip die as a result. Osteoporosis is caused by lack of oestrogen.
Many who live with incontinence, osteoarthritis and prolapse will tell you that their quality of life is severely impacted. Vaginal atrophy and loss of libido cause the breakdown of marriages. Alzheimer’s is a living death.
I am sure others can provide more examples. You haven’t had problems so far, that’s great but don’t minimise the suffering other people experience.

Yes...I am aware, having worked as a nurse in Psychiatric wards. These are separate conditions which may or may not be related to menopause. I agree...they are debilitating, but to hear you talk, it sounds like one wave of the HRT wand will cure everything!

It might...but it might not

Why is the media talking as though most women are too ashamed to talk about the menopause and HRT? Sophie Raworth this morning talking to Davina Mccall said that until DM's documentary she was ashamed to talk about it.

How is it that we all knew about HRT 30 years ago, maybe even longer. I remember in my 40s when my periods started to dry up, going to my GP and asking for HRT. I also remember discussing the menopause with all my friends. I was lucky - my symptoms just needed me to open or close a car window on a journey or put on or take off a cardigan, both at frequent intervals. My neighbour, poor lady, often had to change her sheets and nightdress during the night.

Considering the many, formerly verboten, topics that are discussed today, why so ashamed of the menopause?

I have never suggested it is for everyone DD. Nor that oestrogen will cure every medical condition.
I was trying to counterbalance the declarations from people who assume that they have sailed through the menopause when they don’t understand the long term issues. It is common on Gransnet to have older grans bemoaning their medical conditions which are related to low oestrogen levels but they are completely unaware of this.
My mother reached and passed the initial stages of menopause with no problems. Later she suffered hugely from completely preventable osteoporosis and later still the beginnings of dementia.

Esspee

I have never suggested it is for everyone DD. Nor that oestrogen will cure every medical condition.
I was trying to counterbalance the declarations from people who assume that they have sailed through the menopause when they don’t understand the long term issues. It is common on Gransnet to have older grans bemoaning their medical conditions which are related to low oestrogen levels but they are completely unaware of this.
My mother reached and passed the initial stages of menopause with no problems. Later she suffered hugely from completely preventable osteoporosis and later still the beginnings of dementia.

Like I said before...I don’t want to take HRT in case I get osteoporosis. I’ll take my chances. I take supplements, so no risk of side effects.

My friend had breast cancer, and developed osteoporosis, which is being treated very well. These options may not have been around for your mum. She also said she had no idea she had it, until scanned, as it’s painless. She does anything she wants exercise wise with no problem.

Prevention can be better than cure, but that’s usually because the curing part isn’t definite.

You also need to realise, if what you’re saying is true, it’s no good counterbalancing anything for those who think they’ve sailed through menopause. In your opinion, surely it’s too late?

It’s not by the way. Treat each symptom as it comes along. All is not lost.

Esspee...I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Take care.

Baggs

Good post, argymargy.

Thanks @Baggs - I appreciate that!

Thank you everyone. I am so glad to know that I am not on my own. I think part of the current Menopause Hysteria is down to the trend these days is that " no one has ever suffered before like we do now" and that seems to be about every single aspect of life. The only difference between now and the past decades, centuries, millennia is the presence in our lives of social media.

Some years ago I heard an item on Women's Hour about a social group where the incidence of menopausal problems was very low.

This was because once a woman's periods had stopped she no longer had to cover her face and live in total seclusion but could go out more or less freely. I immediately decided that this was how I would approach the menopause and whether by coincidence or anything else, apart from some heavy bleeding from fibroids, I had no other symptoms. DD's experience has been similar, she never wanted children and is delighted that she is past the age when she could have them.

Went on HRT because I had a total hysterectomy when I was 38. Was on it for 16 years and was taken off it. The menopause hit hot flushes ,night and day sweats. But I just put up with it. It's just become a part of me. I take vitamin D,K and calcium daily,cod liver oil, B12 and folic acid. Due to having HPX and a heart defect both things I was born with I take enough prescription drugs for. I am 64 now while the hot flushes and sweats are a bother at times they don't rule my life. My skin is clear and my hair as thick as ever. I know some have a awful time with menopause symptoms but for me it's part of aging and part of me which I embrace . Everyone must decide how best to cope with it. HRT or not everyone should have a choice. But no one should tell you are wrong whichever route you take.

Whoever said being a woman was easy. But I won't want to be a man. ?

Has anyone ever started hrt at age 64

Because the risks are increased the further you are from your last period Theghostus few women of 64 will be started on HRT. There are many 64 year olds taking it but the vast majority will have started around menopause.
If you are asking for yourself I suggest you look at the risk/benefit tables in the NICE guidelines on the menopause. If you feel that you still wish to pursue this then a discussion with a consultant would be the next step.

@esspee

I’m sorry for your mother’s condition but you are wrong to claim or imply that HRT would cure prevent or even improve dementia .
I’m seeing these over blown claims for HRT all over the place these days and wondering why .

Dementia is associated with low oestrogen. I suggest you Google and read up on the subject Nothisagain.

P.S. the @ function doesn’t work on Gransnet.
To illustrate @Nothisagain. (you won’t receive notification)

We have asked for it but Gransnet is Mumsnet’s poor relation I’m afraid.

This is what the Alzheimer's Society say:

Until there is better evidence, the potential benefits of HRT as a way to reduce the risk of Alzheimer's disease do not outweigh the potential risks of HRT, which includes an increased risk of certain types of cancer, heart disease and stroke.

www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/risk-factors-and-prevention/hormones-and-dementia

Esspee of course dementia is associated with low oestrogen because it is associated with old age. Prolonging higher levels of oestrogen in women may delay some of the symptoms of old age for some years but HRT is not the elixir of life.

“…. it is possible that oestrogen plays a role in protecting the brain from the damage caused by Alzheimer’s, and that this protective effect is lost when oestrogen levels are decreased.”

Both the above quote and the attached photo are taken from Alzheimer’s.org.uk

I thoroughly researched the subject when my mother showed signs of mental deterioration. Oestrogen at her stage in life was not the solution because she was well past menopause but I discovered a medication which was not yet approved for use (this was over 20 years ago) I managed to get her onto Aricept and it halted the decline so that she did not deteriorate further.

I was wondering about this idea that the menopause is a taboo subject. I grew up around quite a lot of older women, my grandmother's sisters. I remember them talking about "the change" I don't remember them discussing all the symptoms. I do remember it seemed to be a time when women were expected to do strange things and were allowed to behave badly. 'Oh it's just the change" seemed to be an excuse for all sorts of things.

No, no HRT, am now 75 and in reasonably good health , and fairly fit, so I consider myself very lucky, I don’t feel it was a healthy lifestyle or good diet, just luck. But DD 2 is in her early fifties and is thinking of going on it as she is currently struggling with the menopause and has long covid, poor thing.

No, not on HRT and no menopausal problems. I always thought I must be a bit strange too, and wondered if I was missing symptoms that others were picking up on. I was actually quite happy when I had hot flushes one night that I could tell friends about - until I realised I was just dehydrated and once I got my fluids up the hot flushes faded away. My DM suffered all sorts with menopause, so I understand a bit of what others go through.

Yes Esspee, there's a great deal of it is possible that ... and it may be that ... but that is not conclusive proof. The same organisation which you are quoting have said:

Until there is better evidence, the potential benefits of HRT as a way to reduce the risk of Alzheimer's disease do not outweigh the potential risks of HRT, which includes an increased risk of certain types of cancer, heart disease and stroke.

I have every sympathy with those suffering from all the problems of the menopause, but I think the picture now coming over is that the mid 40s - mid 50s, at least, is hell for every woman is damaging to indivdual women and women as a group.

There are a lot of women who get through the menopause without any problems. A group that I once read accounted for about 40% of the female population.

By all means do all we can for those with menopausal problems, but as with other specifically female problems let us concentrate on those with problems and allow that there are many who do not have them.