Situation in Israel - we can help.

I find all this so hard. We are all totally appalled by the bloodshed; but we cannot get inside the heads of those involved. Presumably both sides are mainly made up of decent folks trying to raise their families without violence being done to them; and both feel that they have right (and probably god) on their side.

We have to take some responsibiliuty for the mess as (once again) western interference in the lives of people in other countries created a large part of the situation in the fist place.

What a mess.

Fondasharing you make more sense than I do! Same sentiments tho'
Absent and greatnan, you're right, I shouldn't tar all Israelies with the same brush.
nanej thanks for the link.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E21MdXe3BOQ

Here is another one!

The people of Gaza elected Hamas and this is what Hamas stands for:

Hamas's 1988 charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state. After the elections in 2006, Hamas co-founder Mahmoud Al-Zahar did not rule out the possibility of accepting a "temporary two-state solution", and stated that he dreamed "of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it."[53] Xinhua reports that Al-Zahar "did not rule out the possibility of having Jews, Muslims and Christians living under the sovereignty of an Islamic state."[53] In late 2006, Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, said that if a Palestinian state was formed within the 1967 lines, Hamas was willing to declare a truce that could last as long as 20 years, and stated that Hamas will never recognize the "usurper Zionist government" and will continue "jihad-like movement until the liberation of Jerusalem.

This is why the Israelis are so bloody minded and determined not to give an inch to Hamas. The Jews learned the hard way that you cannot live under a regime that hates you, and the Palestinian Arabs hate them intensely, and teach their children from birth to do the same.

This does not mean that Israeli actions are correct, it just means that they are trapped in an impossible situation. They are an intelligent, determined people who simply will never ever concede sovereignty, and when Hamas targets and kills Israeli civilians by rocket fire, in response to Israelis killing Hamas militants, I have to wonder why the Palestinians think they have the moral high ground. As Netenyahu pointed out the other day: "We target their militants and try to avoid civilian casualties: they target our civilians and use their own civilians as human shields."

PS
I did sign the petition for a Palestinian State. This is the only solution but it is impossible at this stage to agree on borders.

Israel should have learnt that there is no possibility of military success - unless they are considering 'The Final Solution' - as long as many Palestinians support Hamas every civilian death will act as recruitment. The situation is almost the same as in Afghanistan.
Whatever the stated aims of the leaders, they are going to have to get round the table and hammer out a compromise.

It's funny how many Palestinian women and children are inadvertently killed by Israeli surgical attacks on militants. I bet they're laughing their socks off about that in Gaza.

Would it be 'impossible' for the Israelis to end illegal occupation?

Whenever figues for casualties are announced, Palestinian ones far outweigh Israeli ones.

I don't know why we want to pretend it is an equal fight.

I am wondering if our media are biased.

petallus Israel doesn't occupy Gaza any longer – it left in 2005. However, it does control Gaza – water, food, medical supplies, building materials and access in and out of Palestinian territory.

Thanks absentgrana.

I was sure I read something the other day about illegal occupation still going on.

However, pleased it isn't.

Israel concentrates on systems that defend its civilians from rocket fire. Attack and defense go hand in hand there. That is why they have fewer casualties.

Hamas concentrates on attacks only, and they have always put their militants among civilians: in the last interfada we saw televised direct evidence of this. Then they use the resulting civilian deaths as propaganda.

Hamas is a despicable organisation, and its main victims are the Palestinian people. They elected them, but I doubt if they knew what they were in for.

petallus The West Bank is occupied and it is there that Israel has been building settlements and cutting off chunks of Palestinian territory with its so-called security fence.

Oh okay. I should have known that. Will go and find out exactly what is going on so I can comment from a more informed position in future

petallus It is such a complicated situation and arouses such strong emotions that it is often difficult to read between the lines in media reports. Spokesmen and even journalists are hugely selective in what they say about their activities and intentions. I always find it wryly amusing when Israeli spokesmen – the most recent one I heard being the Ambassador to Britain – sound off self-righteously about terrorist organisations in general and Hamas in particular. It wasn't Arabs who blew up the King David Hotel in Tel-Aviv and killed nearly 100 people in 1946 in revenge for the confiscation of documents about Jewish terrorist groups. They conveniently forget the foundations of an independent Israeli state.

It is also such a problem because the solution must take account of what is now rather than what was at some time in the past or what might have been. That's obvious but so often overlooked.

I have to say that I don't think there will be a solution to this terrible mess or an end to the deaths and injury in my lifetime.

Gaza has a border with Egypt. Before the regime change in Egypt, that border was policed like the one with Israel. Now it appears it isn't. Joan makes a very good and often overlooked point, that the thousands of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza are not as lethal as they might be because the Israelis try to intercept as many as they can and the population within range spends a lot of time in air raid shelters.

Let's hope Hillary can talk some sense into the Israelis.

They must know by now what the rest of the world really thinks.

The whole territory thing is so complicated! Who the flip can get their head round this lot!

I have landed at Taba airport a couple of times, where you can see Israel, Jordon, Egypt and the mountains of Saudi Arabia. The security is pretty tight outside the airport. There is a big sign saying 'Welcome to Israel'. The array of heavily armed guards did not seem very welcoming!
Egypt's tourist industry has suffered greatly from the conflict - the Israelis used to form a large part of the visitors to the Red Sea resorts, until they were warned by their government that it was too dangerous. Now, the coast is lined with half-built or empty hotels. It is very sad - there is not much alternative employment.

Israel is lucky to be more technically advanced, most likely with the help of the US. Seems unfair that the Palestinians don't have the same help given to them.

Or maybe it is used differently israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000592

I guess I was thinking of technical know-how rather than 'aid'.

I now have a much firmer grasp of the intricacies of this situation and still feel basically the same as when I didn't.

It can't help matters in Gaza that Israel has illegal settlements on the West Bank. The blockade of Gaza cannot be helping matters either.

Why did Israel go to the trouble of exterminating the Hamas leader who was a moderating influence on Hamas?

Is there anything to be gained by an escalation of hostilities?

An excuse to invade Gaza perhaps!

petallus I quite agree about the killing of the Hamas leader. It has set all this off again. It was stupid.

If you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who wanted you wiped off the face of the earth, would you not expect your government to protect you? Many Israelis long for peace but ending the bloodshed will be a long and complicated process.