Energy companies' stranglehold

I don't think there is competition because my paranoia tells me that the energy companies have a cartel and all work together [watched too much Dallas in my youth perhaps].

I was just reminding everybody that this could possibly be a good thing to check out now. She said to watch out for companies who freeze your cost but charge a 'get out' fee. I haven't to be fair looked at this myself yet.

Agreement with Tegan's point about competition. The rise in energy bills in the past 5 years or so has been so far ahead of inflation and I believe they could only do this if the 6 major companies formed a cartel to ensure their prices were similar.

Iam64

It can't be overlooked that Miliband was Energy Minister between 2008-2010. He brought in the Climate Change Act which unbelievably caused our energy bills to rise at a faster pace than they have done over recent years. It is the inclusion of these 'Green Taxes' in our bills that are a big problem.

Maybe I fall behind the argument that 'Green Tax' costs should be removed from our energy bills. Why, because they have affected the poorest in society who 'have' to pay for gas and electric. This would be an immediate reduction on our bill and we would know more how much profit the energy companies are making.

Green levies I believe account for 11% of our bill.

Now where the 'Green Tax' levy should passed onto is a question that needs serious debate.

Where do you get that figure of 11% pogs. The current of issue of Which magazine quotes 4% of average bill to promote investment in low carbon energy.

JessM

I did say I 'believe' it was 11%. There is quite a difference between our posts. It is a figure I have seen in print and heard on TV but I admit to not being sure, hence I wrote 'I believe'. You could well be right.

The point I was making is , is there a possibility Green Taxes could be looked at being removed from energy bills as I believe it has a damaging effect on the least well off in particular, given they have no choice but pay it.

What about the high price paid by those with meters pogs ? Is it fair that those of use who pay by DD get charged less?

JessM

I am not arguing with any comment you have made. A lot of companies charge you less for using DD don't they, not just energy companies. I don't agree with that principal but I suppose I admit to understanding why they do it.

Not quite sure how Ecotricity would stand on that. They pay £280 per customer per year to build wind turbines and research into renewables.
I willingly pay that.
Why not ask the government to cut the VAT on fuel; that's 5%.
I'd rather pay green taxes than VAT. At least I know what I'm paying for.

Jendurham - I agree, it'd be wrong to cut the green payment but right to cut VAT.

Yes pogsit makes business sense, but if a politician wanted to put the screws on...
The thing about cutting VAT I suppose is that it would cost the gvt a fortune, but pressuring the energy companies is free.

Are these green taxes ring-fenced? More likely they just go into the general coffers. Those least able to afford it are paying a larger percentage of their income on fuel and to support these dubious taxes.

And the idea that the energy companies would leave the UK is laughable - they're making huge profits.

Iam 64

VAT has possibly no chance of being reduced for a long time.

Rachael Reeves, Labour Minister, said quite clearly that VAT would not be reduced under Labour. Why, because the economy is picking up. It was also mentioned 'I believe' at the Labour Conference last week !

Just a quick thought. It was said on Murnaghan this morning, "We should be looking at how to reduce energy bills, not keeping them high". I immediately thought about yesterday when we filled up with petrol. The petrol was 3 p lower than the week before. So I am now pondering on that comment too. All very confusing.

The supermarkets are vying with each other to cut the petrol prices at the pumps 'to reflect the drop in wholesale prices', they say.

They do this every so often, don't they?

Ana

Precisely.

If Miliband wants to 'freeze' energy prices, why would he not go on and on and 'freeze' food prices, petrol etc. It sounds wonderful, until you seriously give it some thought. I am putting another slant on such a scheme and saying he may just be shooting us all in the foot.

Yes there is an obligation on the energy companies to spend the money on renewables. The school I used to work with got a fancy new boiler, fuelled by chippings from eon. It should save a lot of money over the years. They have also been obliged, for a very long time, to put money into energy efficiency measures for householders. But they have been criticised for the way they have implemented this at times.

Cartels are illegal. If there was any suggestion that the energy industries had one the Office for Fair Trading would be on them like a ton of bricks. I think a couple of British Airways staff did a couple of years in prison for entering a cartel with Virgin Airlines. They got away with it because they reported it. However if one power group puts its prices up the others will follow, they do not need to reach any agreement.

Frankly after hearing an interview with Ecotricity on You and Yours this morning, I think the company is hypocritical. The interviewer asked them what they did if they could not meet the demands of their customers at any given time because they were not generating enough power from renweable sources. Their spokesman replied 'we buy on the spot market'. That means they buy in electricity generated by power stations using hydrocarbons and nuclear fuel to supply to their customers.

I think if people sign up to companies like ecotricity because all their power is, supposedly, generated renewably, if the power is not being generated they should have their electricity supply cut until the renewable resources start generating again.

All the main electricity suppliers have a renewable obligations. All of them own wind turbines. Tilbury power station has recently converted to burning wood from renewable resources and the Drax power station in Yorkshire is to do the same. The Didcot A coalfired power station burnt up to 10% biomass before its recent closure. I buy my power from a company that is honest about producing power generated both renewably and by conventional means.

I have never heard anything quite so ridiculous. In fact, it nearly made me swear!
The one thing Ecotricity/ Vince Dale is is honest. Before you criticise you ought to look at the website and see how honest the company is.
They list their fuel mix for every year from April 09 to March 2013.
The last financial year their renewable fuel was 67.5%, with 1.7% nuclear. The national average for renewable is 11.3% with 20.6% nuclear.
What they have also said is that from 1st August 2013 they have taken their fuel mix to 100% green electricity, for every unit of electricity that their customers use, they now source a unit of 100% green electricity.

Tell you what, Flickety, you are only allowed to have 11.3% renewable, and you have to have 20% nuclear in your mix. Is that okay?
And whoever does not want to pay the green taxes is not allowed to have any renewable electricity.
They have a very good chart on the Ecotricity website showing you exactly when gas, oil and coal reserves run out.
Oh, and my fuel charges are frozen until the end of the year. I believe British Gas have said theirs are going up by 8% soon.

www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/sep/30/george-osborne-green-economy-stupid

An interesting article for you to read.

jen Ecotricity may make renewable energy up to consumers annual consumption each year but day by day, minute by minute they cannot produce enough renewable energy to meet their customers demand or the amount of electricity they have committed to feed into the grid on a day by day/hour by hour basis. That is why they need to buy on the spot market electricity made from what fuel the cannot know. I just think that if their customers are so wedded to having entirely renewable energy, then they should accept that if renewable energy is not available to meet their consumption at the time they need it they should be prepared to accept brown outs or having power cut off.

I have no problems whatsoever with nuclear energy. I have lived near nuclear facilities most of my life without once having the slightest worry about it. Many environmentalists, including James Lovelock, of the Gaia theory and George Monbiot are now accepting that the only way to realistically meet our energy demands and reduce carbon dioxide emissions is to go nuclear. As George Monbiot points out fourth generation integral fast reactors can, in principle, keep recycling nuclear waste until only a tiny residue remains, whose components have half-lives of tens rather than millions of years.

I am concerned about making serious inroads into carbon emissions, to moving to transport fuels like hydrogen, that requires high levels of electricity to produce. In this country this cannot be done with windmills and photovoltaic panels.

Well said, flick. I'm happy with nuclear too. Wind factories are spoiling too much countryside. I don't understand how 'environmentalists' square pouring tonnages on concrete into wild land with caring for the environment.

And what is not discussed is how profitable wind farms are - to the operators. The Renewable Energy Foundation estimates that the wind generation industry is subsidised to the tune of £14 billion a year and photo-voltaics are equally heavily subsidised.

We have reached our wind turbine targets for 2020 let us now stop subsidising their construction and operation. Some companies may then pull out of the market, though obviously not Ecotricity, their green credentials are so strong, and redirect the money to investment in technologies that can actually make substantial inroads into our carbon emissions.

I have no objection to green taxes and have never said anything about them. However how Ecotricity can have graphs showing when stocks of gas/coal/oil will run out I do not know, since there is no way of knowing what total world resources of these minerals are or how future technology will enable us to access currently inaccessible resources. Not to mention reduction in use when sufficient nuclear power stations are on stream.

Have a look at the pictures of Drax, with windmills in front of it.
Which would you prefer?
I live on the edge of the Durham Dales and see windturbines in every direction. I love the sight of them and do not think they spoil the view at all. Concrete is poured into the land all the time to build houses, to build wind turbines, to build nuclear power stations.
There are plans at the moment to build carbon capture storage in the North Sea near Bridlington. The Yorkshire Wolds is going to have a pipeline going all the way from Drax to the North Sea, disturbing all the land.
Hope none of you who complain about green energy taxes have electric cars, because that is somewhere else where Ecotricity are ahead of the pack. But of course, you wouldn't, would you!

Okay, Flickety, you have your nuclear power station in your back yard. I'll have my wind turbines. Then we are both happy.

uk.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A7x9QbsxUUtSDRMA8b1LBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE0a2NhYjJoBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2lyZAR2dGlkA1VLQzAwMl83Mg--/SIG=125e5egll/EXP=1380696497/**http%3a//www.electricity-guide.org.uk/fuel-mix.html

Since 2005 all companies have had to tell you what their fuel mix is.
I could buy my electricity from the Woodland Trust. I buy trees quarter acres of woodland, etc. from them. They have two different tariffs, one with 15% renewable, and one with 100% renewable. They buy their electricity from Ovo. Ovo do not build wind turbines, so I do not.

The RSPB is another charity I have connections with. They use Ecotricity, so have obviously been conned by them like I have. They have a wind turbine at their head office in Sandy, Bedfordshire. They used to be SSE, but changed because Ecotricity suited them better.

Most people are not concerned about the fuel mix. I am.

Are you aware that the new nuclear power stations are to be built by French comanies, with help from Russia and the Chinese?