Are you ready to welcome the apparent flood of bulgarians and romanians....

Well I am definitely ex-centric, living so far from London ;)

I trust that all these keen, aspirational, hardworking and entrepreneurial young immigrants, and their children when they have them, will be contributing lots of tax in the decades to come and thus allow future governments to fund both my state pension and the NHS in my old age.

They'll have to be quick then, Jess!

I am thinking 20 - 30 years on ana thank you very much.

My reasoning being that us baby boomers are going to be expensive for the country to keep going in our 80s and 90s

Sorry Jess - I hadn't realised you expected to live so long!

I can but hope ana - the life expectancy charts for baby boomers are quite encouraging. But you never know what is around the corner do you.

No, you certainly don't, as I know all too well, Jess. Let's just hope the DM doesn't get hold of the idea that baby boomers welcome more immigrants because they'll pay for our old age!

There has been talk in France for a very longtime that immigration is essential to fight against the ageing of the population and future pension crisis- so it is not a new concept.

Certainly the very successful Ugandan Asians in Leicester, be they professionals or in business- have re-paid any help given intitially time and time again and again, both in money and kind (as surgeons, doctors, employment providers, etc, etc).

Riverwalk You were asking for an opinion from someone in Scotland. Although I no way claim to speak for the whole of Scotland I can tell you my own thoughts. The reason I have not contributed to this thread is that living where I do Immigration is not and has never been a problem. Emigration, of our brightest and best, seeking better prospects and promotions elsewhere, has been more of a curse. We have certainly had waves of immigrants come and settle here Irish, Jewish, Italians, Uganda Asians and Europeans, Pakistanis, many others and locally to me a lot of Poles. We had a camp for Polish Soldiers just up the road during and just after the war and many married and stayed on here. They established a Polish Club and kept up Polish traditions. I started school along with several Scottish born children with Polish surnames, as did my DDs and then my DGC. Recent years have seen a big influx of Poles to this area probably because of family connections. I do not know anyone who has a problem with this as they are viewed as skilled, hard working, English speaking - not benefit scroungers. Only complaint is that they are a bit reticent, not unfriendly, just keep themselves to themselves.

The story is much the same throughout Scotland. No one area has been inundated or taken over completely such that Scots feel outnumbered or that their culture is under threat. With the exception of the mass influx from Ulster which brought us religious bigotry which still prevails in the West of Scotland, the effect of many small waves of immigrants from various places has enriched our lives. What would we do without corner shops that open all hours, even on Christmas day, Curry houses, Italian Icecream, many black and far eastern staff in hospitals and care homes, the comedy double act, gay couple who ran our local chip shop and pizza parlour having fled from persecution in Greece. Our DGC are always celebrating some festival or another, throughout the year and both schools' nativity plays featured suitably dark skinned 3 Kings (I am still wondering if this is PC or not - surely Mary should not really be the blondest, bluest eyed girl in the class?). Best laugh last year was the American couple in a highland hotel, earnestly extolling to us the virtues of the hard working, cheerful, friendly, helpful and knowledgeable (obvious to us, entirely Eastern European) staff. The Americans' one complaint was that the staff would speak their native Gaelic among themselves - otherwise they were a credit to Scottish hospitality We did not enlighten them.

Ah, the Daily Mail again hey folks.

Why on earth can't those GN's who read the Daily Mail be given credit to debate with those who detest the Daily Mail reader. It is condescending and as a Daily Mail reader I can assure you that the continual condescending attitude by some to fellow posters is not only now so tedious it has become an inevitable occurrence and we all sit back and wait for the first time it is mentioned and then wait for the inevitable posts that follow.

It is patronising and trying to make a point about Daily Mail readers in a general terminology is still a personal assault to your fellow GN's. If you want to debate/argue/deliberate then please do so giving credence to the intelligence of fellow posters who contrary to apparent perception are smart enough to use their own intellect to assess/process and establish their thoughts by means other than reading a newspaper. I would like to think just because somebody reads the Guardian they too do not use it as their only contact point for gaining information. If however they do then who am I to judge them or believe them to be a lesser person than I.

I will ask this question again concerning the OP. Is there another GN who has friends or family who are not UK born and bred who feel there is a debate to be had concerning the sustainability and problems our services are trying to cope with, in this day and age not looking back to a time that has little relevance to the future of the UK and it's population whether immigrant or not.

Very enjoyable post from Granny 23, thanks for a bit of Scottish input. My family now has a Polish connection, after one of our daughter's married the grandson of a Polish man who escaped a Russian camp during WW2, fled to England and then joined fought with the allies.

What a lovely post Granny 23. And, speaking as someone who lives in one the most deprived boroughs in England and whose school age grandchildren attend schools where they are among a very small minority of British born children, I can only echo your very positive thoughts and attitude.

POGS to deduce that Daily Mail readers as a whole group are regarded negatively is rather going over the top. There's a difference between the publication and the variety of readers who want to see what the Daily Mail has to say on different subjects. I also read the DM, amongst several other publications. I don't make sweeping generalisations about its readers, and don't see other DM critics do this either, but I do see a general journalistic sloppiness and heavy bias in the way it presents its stories. The DM is not alone, but it does seem to be more consistently biased and careless about checking facts than the others.

I read the Guardian for thirty years and gave it up in the end because of the self-congratulatory tone of many of its readers and the smugness. Many Guardian readers just love the fact that that is what they are.

I'm back reading it again now using an app. I read the DM when I go out for coffee and it is available. I also get it free from Waitrose.

But, of course, I'd never pay for it .

Only joking!

I agree with POGS that some Gnetters have a condescending, dismissive attitude to the DM and its readers.

There is an article in today's Guardian by Christina Patterson in which she comments on the worrying increasing feelings of hopelessness in our young who cannot find jobs.

I wish I knew how to do a link but I don't.

In the article she says:

'In some parts, most jobs have been wiped out by the collapse of entire industries, and migrants have snapped up the jobs that are left - why wouldn't you if you could earn more in a day here than in your own country in a week? And why would you compete if you had a better standard of living on benefits than on a very low wage?'

I've got to admit, the Guardian is still my favourite newspaper.

Thanks Petallus, I'll read it. The quote you have put in summarises the situation we're in very well.

Whenim

You and I will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

I couldn't help but note your post on the 3rd at 10.25 . I must have read too much into your thoughts.

Best way for the media to make their prophecies come true is to divide the present inhabitants and rev them up with great negativity and doom and gloom. can you imagine how many hospitals/care homes would completely close down without immigrants. Every time there has been a wave of immigrants arriving there has been a wave of xenophobia, but things settle, why does NOBODY ever pick up on the fact that Brits have always emigrated to every corner of the earth but of course its different for us isn't it its aright for us to do it

It can be a blessing if we allowed it, the best friend I've ever had is Bulgarian she's hard working very intelligent never had a benefit in her life or wanted or expected one. I wish I could say the same of my English next door neighbours, 10 people without a job between them

Something that I wonder about: Why is it that young northerners, from areas of high unemployment do not up sticks and fill all those jobs that are available in the South?

Jess 1. They don't want to leave their families. 2. They can't afford accommodation.

My son wasn't happy in his last job spending a lot of money and time travelling and sharing a rented room for £100 a week, so he emigrated 18 years ago he's never looked back has everything a good job, big house a great lifestyle Do I miss him of course but do I blame him not at all. What's the difference between that and someone coming here to better their life......

None whatsoever BlueBelle. Lots of Brits are economic migrants so why the rest are so aggressive about immigrants to Britain looking for work and a better life is incomprehensible. Concerns about overcrowded schools and a stretched health service are, of course, understandable but are also matters that can be addressed.

Phew at least you and I think alike Absent I sometimes feel out on a limb because so many people are so unrelenting in their negativity

My grandkids go to a fantastic multi cultural school and have friends from everywhere and what an advantage, what a beautiful way to learn. Every year after their Nativity they have different little groups sometimes one or two sometimes a lot come out and say Happy Christmas in their own language It goes on for a while and then the teacher not wanting to leave the 'locals' out said and now the English children ---every child no matter what colour or creed stood up and shouted Happy Christmas and that made me feel wonderful knowing that all these little souls some have come from war torn countries some economic migrants recognised their own culture but felt included enough to feel British

Agreed jane but do not 1 and 2 apply to young people from Spain or Poland?