In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

Pogs I won't follow your lead and vote Tory, but I congratulate on a post that shows thought and reason and not knee-jerk reaction and blind rhetoric. I think we can agree to disagree with neither of us feeling browbeaten.

Ivanhoe you are still living in the 19th century.

mcem is sure many of us, no matter what our political persuasion, do give thought to the various policies being put forward and vote with our heads.

What I cannot get over are those who will always just vote for the same party, come what may. No one party is ever completely in the 'right' or 'wrong' so it comes down to which policies you can live with at any one point in time. Or indeed if any of them are worth a vote.

Should read 'I'm sure many of us....'

Are you not an independent candidate for somewhere, Ivanhoe?

For any of you who are wondering if Ivanhoe is real, here he is
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywYPBSZc16I

POGS, a very well-thought out post and very clear.

(I did not mean to speak for you earlier ),

I am still puzzled! I cannot equate the somewhat ranting posts on GN with this pleasant sounding man who comes across with a fairly reasonable message on Youtube. Or is it just me?

No, not just you, rosequartz If Ivanhoe put his views across as calmly and eloquently, I'm sure we'd all be more inclined to take him seriously.

POGS Excellent post. Thank you.

POGS what an excellent & well thought out post. I too am puzzled about the reasons behind Ivanhoe's posts, it seems ( not ) strange that these diatribes appear days from the local & European elections.

Got it now. Ivanhoe is a prospective parliamentary candidate for Totnes. Standing as an independent. Social housing for young people and better pensions for retired folks. So sorry I don't live in Totnes.

He says he's not on the other (Tory's (sic)) thread mcem. Must have changed his mind. I'm getting dizzy here

I have come back to this thread after being away from it most of the day.

Replying to Ivanhoes question "Elegran, The Labour party was founded to sticks up for the exploited masses of working class people. What's your problem with that ?"

I have no problem with it. My point was that doing all of that involves much wider issues than just blasting all policies from other parties, insulting all those who have a different opinion on the details of how to help eliminate poverty and get an econmomy that generates the money to spend on achieving those aims, and encouraging class warfare.

I repeat what I have said earlier, that those who wish to see more prosperity for the most disadvantaged people in society need to study the worldwide financial and social situation and mak the right decisions for the whole country. That is not best done while wearing out-of-date blinkers.

Elegran. Britain needs to re- distribute its wealth fairly. We also need to spend much more of our GNP on our vital services, including State pensions.

If Im wearing out of date blinkers, yours are positively, antiquated.

If we don't make wealth, there is nothing to distribute. It needs BOTH not either/or.

Ivanhoe why do you go on reoeating yourself, yet won't answer straight questions? We don't live in splendid isolation as Elegran points out. You can't solve a single problem by ignoring all 99% of other relevant factors.

I am obliged to those who have taken my posts well.

Ivan I am shocked at your video. I would have thought you would be happy with overseas aid and I think the Olympics were a great success.

I have to tell you that your message was clear and precise and to my utter astonishment not at all partisan nor displaying the hatred you show when posting on GN. I was interested in what you had to say.

In response to your video I will tell you of my father's circumstances up to his death last June. H e had a pension of £140 a week. He received Pension Credit and Attendance Allowance which covered all of his costs for home care from Social Services and paid his bills comfortably. He had the usual Winter Fuel Allowance, his council tax paid and of course prescriptions free, glasses free and dentist free. He was a perfect gentleman who never complained and was looked after very well by the state and family. His care from his doctors. Was second to none and the NHS didn't give up on him at the age of 94 and they fitted a pace maker to give him hope of an extended life. Not bad hey! He did own his own home but I believe rent would have been paid had he lived in rental accommodation.

I think it might be a different kettle of fish if you have savings over £23.000.00 as you will not receive pension credit but there has to be a cut off point somewhere, that is a debate able point in question of that I am aware.

I liked your t.shirt by the way which said 'I have nothing to declare except my genious'.

I have that same T-shirt. POGS It is good for wearing to airports, though I don't think I would risk it at New York, where the sense of humour threshold is higher.

Elegran

I think the difference is you wear it tongue in cheek. Or are you a secret narcissist.

The son in Miami is definitely nonexistent. The staff are the rudest least helpful I've ever met. (Heathrow was just inefficient, not deliberately rude and unhelpful )

I typed SOH!

POGS, how can you say that Labour have the edge on hypocrisy?
NHS?
Tax cuts for the rich?
All in it together?

DJ

Because that's what I find.

I can't stand the likes of Ed Balls, Miliband, Chuka Umuna, Harriet Harmen, the Benns etc. calling the Tories posh boys and rich toffs when they are from the same stable. It is class ware fare and hypocrisy.

I can't stand Labour claiming to be the best thing since sliced bread concerning the NHS. My mother died at George Elliot Hospital which under Labour was in the top 10 of the worst hospitals. I would like Andy Burnham to dare talk to me. He is a hypocrite.

I think Labour should stop peddling the myth they did wonders in building new schools and hospitals. The fact the PFI schemes are now causing closures and will take years to pay off has been shoved under the carpet.

Labour bang on about unemployment, it is now lower than when they were in power but labour maintain the myth it is higher 'under this government'.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

I am not stupid enough to know hypocrisy does not belong to any one political party but, as with this post, I was extending the courtesy of responding to a poster who asked me a direct question.

falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/self-employment-accounts-for-44-of-the-net-rise-in-employment-since-mid-201

Here's the lie about unemployment in Tory world.

The Labour party did build new schools and hospitals. It's not a myth. PFI became a problem with the privatisation of the NHS and the worldwide downturn in the economy.

Where do you see the hypocrisy in the Tory party, as you say it does not belong to any one political party, but only give examples of where you see Labour hypocrisy?

I've said on a different thread that the MPs from this area came from a mining or working background, not from a toff's background. How many Labour front benchers were in the Bullingdon club?