In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

Did you watch the programme, rosequartz?
I presume you chose to move out of London, you were not forced out having lived there for 23 years as was the case for some of these families.
I've lived in lots of different places in this country, and have had to move because of fear of redundancy. But I most definitely have sympathy for these families. They were all evicted because the government decided it no longer wished to pay as much rent as it had done. I think it's immoral, whatever you think.

Well I was forced to move there very much against my will due to work, then forced away due to DH's redundancy after I had become really settled there. No choice, it was either work somewhere else or claim benefits I suppose.
C'est la vie

Another issue is surely the rents which are far too high?

I haven't seen any TV as have been very busy, but may be able to catch up soon. Can't access the link re the tax but will look tomorrow.

My husband worked in London for six months, commuting daily from Peterborough, because of redundancy on the horizon. We moved to Hampshire for an easier commute, and were laughed at when we told estate agents what we could afford. But it was sort of our choice. We were not driven off one day and given the keys for somewhere we had never even seen before, then had to agree to the move because we were going to be left on the streets overnight as happened in the programme.
One of the things that people on here must agree with is that families without much money or work need the support of friends and family to help them get on in life. These people were moved away from friends and family, away from all support networks that they had built up over years.

And that has been the problem ever since the 60s, when working class areas were demolished and people moved to tower blacks, away from their communities. When I was growing up, in almost central Nottingham, it was happening all around us.

To have so little choice in life, and to be deprived of your support system when you need it most, must be horrendous.

I recently moved nearer to my children and grandchildren, but I still have over one hours drive to see them because I could not afford to buy where they lived. So no I have no sympathy for these families, why should tax payers have to pay excessive rents for people living on benefits in places they can only dream of living themselves.

Obviously I have sympathy with genuine claimants.

IDS has had a compassion bypass. The effects of his ideological reforms have been harmful to thousands of people in need of welfare support. Jack Monroe is on Loose Women at 12.30 today, to talk about the rise of food banks for families (not all unemployed, but working and needing support) who are seeking help to feed their children.

For years people have been told that they are perfectly entitled to claim as much money in benefits as possible and to live virtually wherever they can or choose. Suddenly it's all going to change and many lives will be thrown into despair and chaos. Yes, it's only right that those who can work, should. However, the government are now demanding that people get jobs or else lose their benefits..... Sounds fair enough but where are all these jobs?? Do they not know how many people are unemployed and even our graduates can't obtain work so who on earth is going to want to employ those who have no desire to work? Whist I agree that the benefit system does need a radical shake up please do not forget that those affected by the benefit cap are real people who may suddenly lose their homes, friends, family, support network, schools and security. They are going to need some support and for so many of them they will endure mental health problems because of these changes. It's easy to blame the poor for all the woes of this country but let's also point the finger at endless governments who have allowed such high levels of migration to the Uk which has made us, as a nation, desperately short of housing, school places and jobs. Why are the rich getting away with every exploitation under the sun at the same time as the poor are being treated as scapegoats? Please do not like this very wealthy, highly privileged government turn us against each other. Yes, let's have change but let's look after the people who are forced into this change, many will be terrified of the thought of working after many years of being paid to do nothing and they need help during this period of transition. It's not the best time to bring in this drastic measure whist we are in the midst of a dire recession.

I'm not saying it is easy to find a job, but migrants from the EU seem to find work. I have had many jobs over the years, unskilled and skilled some I hated some I liked. I think there are jobs out there but people don't want them, don't like the hours, not a good enough job (in their opinion) for them, not worth their while getting more on benefits. I understand single people and couples without children could find it hard to manage on benefits, but if they have children there is plenty of help.

The trouble is after 13 years of Labour in power, handing money out left right and centre and getting the country into debt, it's a shock to some who have been on benefits for years to realise they might have to get off their bums and get a job and support themselves and their kids.

With such trenchant, all encompassing, and usually personalized views now being demonstrated, this is hardly a discussion; it has become more a flag waving session.

Good to hear that you have sympathy with "genuine" claimants, ninny. These would be UK citizens, of course? (Will you object to migration from Scotland if the referendum is successful? Would be logical!)

Adriane I am entitled to my opinion as are you. Don't start playing the racist card with me.

Hope this will not end up as a row.

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion; if someone disagrees with it fair enough, they have the right to express your own.

The Pathfinder clearance projects perpetrated by Labour under the auspices of John Prescott and forced tbrough by Yvette Cooper made me sick to the stomach. But of course, these were mainly people who had bought their houses and turned them into their little palaces. People who had probably strived and worked. So these people don't matter, they can look out for themselves.

Their own, sorry.

"Light touch" regulation (Labour's fault to some degree but the Tories were constantly pushing for even less regulation) allowed bankers to bankroll all sorts of dubious products and then to package them up and sell them on to other financial institutions. When the whole house of cards finally collapsed, instead of having to pay back the vast amounts of money they had made on the back of these disreputable practices, more money was handed to them to "stabilise" the financial system.

We have since heard about all sorts of illegal practices that bankers used to line their own pockets.

There was a recommendation that large banks be split between those working on "traditional" lines and those involved in "high risk/venture capital" business. All the right noises were made at the time of the recommendation but nothing has been done and I wonder how long it will be before they're up to their old tricks again.

But, as usual, "it's the poor what gets the blame."

I blame Gordon Brown!

Another programme on tonight on Channel4 this time about Tower Hamlets. Families being given two weeks to get out of their homes because the landlord has decided to put the rent up.
There was a 30 year old teaching assistant who had been on the list for social housing for 12 years. She lives with her mother and teenage brother. The flat she was shown was really nice, but she could not afford the social rent of £155 per week.
A mother of three children was evicted, her children's furniture and bikes taken into storage, and she went to the housing office to tell them about her eviction. She was then told she was lucky as they would be able to house her family in temporary accommodation. This turned out to be a 3 bedroomed flat very similar to the one she had been evicted from, but in better condition. Also, because she had been evicted, the housing department had to pay her full rent, which was more than the rent they were allowed to pay for the place that she was evicted from. I do not think she could understand the logic, either, but she was very grateful.
The lone man had to move to Northampton. He was shown going round agents looking for a flat/bedsit to rent. Some agents had signs in the window saying no DSS. The agents that didn't told him to his face that the landlords on their books would not take DSS.
One of the workers in the housing office said that in two years time the area would be completely different to what it is now.
It is becoming so depressing in this country now. Up here the news has been all about foodbanks and the fact that we now have the biggest foodbank in the country in Newcastle.

There is not a well somewhere in Whitehall where the government sends down a bucket and brings up fairy gold. All benefits have to be paid for out of taxation. YOUR MONEY taken from you and redistributed. How much of your income remains yours after INCOME TAX, VAT, FUEL DUTY, TAX ON YOUR SAVINGS, NEED I GO? Child benefit is money taken from you with money lost in administration and a smaller sum paid back to mothers, who could have had the all the money from father without the oncost; as it was until some female do gooder MP thought she knew better. Democracy might be the best system we can come with, but it has one big fault built in. Those who seek to be elected have to make promises to sweeten up the voters to get their vote in order be elected. Having achieved that they find themselves caught up in bureaucracy and the party machine where essentially they remain helpless unless they nod and bow in the right places and climb the political greasy pole and even then their powers are limited because if they upset the voters they are out of a cushy job. So they do the double speak and smile a lot and hang on to the job

On the news last night, it was revealed that not one single penny raised in green taxes has been spent on energy efficiency - where has that gone?

On the Isle of Man, the Government has introduced a 'toilet tax' whereby the Government has added £50 per year to the rates bill - given that benefits have been cut drastically (along with restrictions on who can apply) coupled with an overall fall in incomes, I don't know how the Government thinks people will be able to afford to pay this extra tax.

I thought that the whole point of taxation was, in part, to be there as a safety net when people needed it. I resent this attitude that it's a handout - the majority of people pay into the 'account' all their working lives.

"Cradle to grave" was the aim, wasn't it? I agree, Holly!

I paid into the 'account' all my working life and still do now being taxed on my pension. I'm happy for this to go to support those in need. But to paraphrase Gandhi 'There's enough for everyone’s need, but not enough for everyone’s greed.”

I know he was talking about a different situation but I utterly condemn those who take from the system with no intention of ever trying to get work, and don't pretend they don't exist or are in a minority.

We would not be in this complete and utter mess if it were not for Gordon's mismanagement of the economy, added to by greedy bankers and anyone else in quangos etc jumping on to the greed gravy train, the totally inefficient EU - oh, and I almost forgot:

that warmongerer Blair spending our money and now making himself very rich as a 'peace envoy'. What irony (or very well-planned).

Now we have to get out of this mess somehow.
I am happy to support those in need, but not those who want what I could never have afforded myself.

Agree 100%

Yes, must add the greedy at the other end of the financial spectrum.

Of course those who try to cheat the system by not looking for work are in the minority, Aka. Where do you get figures from to prove it's the majority? The Daily Mail?
Those who take from the system are the rich, not the poor.

Hollydaze, £265 per year of my green taxes goes on producing more green energy. That's because I pay Ecotricity who build wind turbines and research into environmental improvements in energy production, including energy efficiency.
Whichever news you watched, they were doing the usual of only looking at the big six energy companies.