I'm tempted by Nigel Farage !

It's not really about skin colour is it. But skin colour certainly makes for a much more easily identifiable target. Having features or dress that differ from the mainstream population also serves that purpose. Then there are accents (as in the response by some people to an Irish accent some years ago) - but that necessitates actually hearing someone speak so "drive-by racism" isn't so easy.

My view is that in order to divert attention away from the very small group of people who live on the efforts of the rest of the population, it is necessary to have an "out group" that everyone can be encouraged to blame for whatever goes wrong in a country.

If more people were aware of the TTIP and its implications - which jendurham talks about - I suspect the subject of immigration would pale into insignificance.

I think TTIP is like the TPP here in Australia - Trans Pacific Partnerships which would allow companies to sue the government. I've signed lots of online petitions to prevent them getting their claws into our political freedoms.

More and more we are effectively being governed by huge corporations rather than our elected governments. Parties like UKIP may well tap into these fears. Well, they should if they want success. But they are dangerous, not because of any racism, but because they are very right wing.

We have a Tory government here, called the Liberal National Coalition: they have veered to the far right and it is quite terrifying. They are wielding a virtual wrecking ball against anything that makes life worth while - our national health care which is free like the NHS - but no longer after Tuesday's budget. They are upping the retirement age to 70 for men and women.They are selling every asset they can get their hands on, so the profit motive will ensure all services cost more. They are messing with public education funding. They are increasing taxes, including petrol tax. They are breaking the promises that got them elected. And their treatment of refugees is utterly appalling and makes me ashamed to be Australian. The latest atrocity is planning to send would be refugees to Australia to Cambodia of all places. As if sending them to violent and dangerous and poverty/corruption riddled PNG wasn't bad enough. They are letting industry threaten the Great Barrier Reef through pollution....the list goes on.

So my feeling is avoid the far right and the far left. Make moderation the goal. And I don't think UKIP fits that bill.

As for me - I joined the Australian Labour Party to get my views across to the leadership. At least I get to vote in plebiscites to choose our MP candidates.

Oh yes - one last thing: the State LNP (Tory) government sent out a questionaire to the voters as to whether they preferred asset sales to new taxes. To their horror, more people chose taxes. Now they are back-pedalling saying the questionaire was just a guide to their thinking and not binding.

Ha!

Tony Abbot turning out to be as gruesome as well... might have been predicted, then. That is a great pity. I heard he was wanting to sell of virgin forest in Tasmania and that even the forestry industry were cross with him as they had an agreement with conservationists etc that gave them a stable business environment.
Australia to me seems a two tier society with lots of very well off people who send their kids to private secondary schools and have private health care - and a whole lot of others that are struggling with the high prices and education that is not well funded. Not the egalitarian scene that many would have us believe and evidently headed to be even less so.
That is the big point isn't it Eleothan - the rich have got a great deal richer in this country and have an interest in deflecting the attention of the public off onto someone else to blame (immigrants, old, young, claimants etc). And who controls the media... let me think about that for a moment...

Oh yes - the September 2013 federal election was won by the shamelessly right-wing biased Murdoch press, and massive business donations. It grieves me that people are so easily led to vote against their own interests. I can certainly understand the rich, big investors, and big business people voting Tory, but ordinary working people? Why? Because of misleading media coverage of course, and a massive advertising budget.

Joan, I think some of the dirty tricks politicians played on each other put a lot of people off voting Labour back in in Australia. Julia -v- Kevin and vice versa! Just get on with the job was what I heard when I was over there! And virgin Tasmanian forest has been chopped down for a long time, pre-Abottt, unfortunately. I remember being astonished years ago that Australia could be so short-sighted as to vandalise their ancient forests. I am scandalised that he is encouraging it even more - this is a World Heritage Site!

Sorry, have hi-jacked the thread somewhat.

Back to NF - what is his policy on World Heritage Sites and AONB, building on the green belt etc? All important issues.

With regard to who was/is responsible for the widening gap between the rich and poor in Britain, this link gives a good pointer: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8481534.stm

Plenty of other links to choose from though.

The full report (deemed as damning of both the Blair and Brown Governments can be found here for those who are bored enough to read it news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/27_01_10_inequalityfull..pdf )

It isn't simply a case of voting Labour if you want equality - if that was the case, after 13 years in government, wouldn't Britain have experienced a redistribution of wealth and experienced fewer numbers of people in poverty?

The report states clearly that policies from government (any of them) will dramatically affect people's lives but governments seem to shy away from any measures that sends the lives of ordinary citizens on an upward trend. One has to ask 'why'.

building on the green belt etc? All important issues

I would strongly oppose building on green belt land. The population needs to be restricted to what it can comfortably house with a reasonable expectation of standards of life. Once green belt has gone, it has gone - does building continue until there are no green belts left?

Can I ask a question of UKIP supporters please? As UKIP MEP's have, by their own admission, a dreadful attendance, research and voting record at the European Parliament how will a vote for them effect change? Have they pledged to do the job they hope to be voted to do or will they, as now, simply continue to take the money? (If it's the latter then I could do that job! )

grannyactivist - I'm not a UKIP supporter (as I don't live in the UK) but to be fair, many MPs and MEPs don't turn up to vote (David Cameron and others failed to turn up for a vote on HS2 at the end of April news.sky.com/story/1251228/hs2-govt-wins-vote-but-cameron-a-no-show ). There's been a fair bit in the news about MPs turn up, sign in and then clear off again so, to all intents and purposes, they will show up as being present.

From what I have read, UKIP have stated that they won't attend meetings in Brussels on subjects they know they cant' win. Whether that is right or wrong will depend on what was being discussed I suppose.

When Nick Clegg laid this accusation at Farage, Farage responded with:

' “Nick Clegg has some cheek raising attendance and voting records. Although Nick Clegg himself though he lives in London, between 2010 and 2014 he has voted in Westminster only 22.6 per cent of the time.

“By contrast, I live eight hours away from Strasbourg, lead a national party and have voted 55 per cent of the time in the European Parliament.

“Furthermore, from 2005 to 2010 Nick Clegg's voting record in Westminster was only 42.5 per cent and for much of that period he was not leader of the Lib Dems. Can you please explain the criticism, Mr Clegg?” '

(quote taken from www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-and-nigel-farage-to-clash-in-headtohead-tv-and-radio-debates-9170111.html )

Interesting HollyDaze. I have voted Labour for much of my life. I share the general disenchantment most people are expressing about all the major parties. I can enjoy Nigel Farrage as a bit of light entertainment. However, as Oscar Wilde may have (almost) said, "to have one misogynist, homophobic, racist party member is unfortunate. To have so many is careless. "

I heard Ed Milliband speak during the leadership competition. In a small hall, he was mesmerising, charismatic and persuasive. I see him on tv and I'm ashamed and embarrassed to say, I see Mr Bean. I have no time for Nick Clegg, and I'm not honestly sure who David Cameron in. We're in a marginal, and have had a labour MP for 15 years. He was born and lives locally. His children went to local schools. He works hard for his constituents, seems true to our shared heritage here and seems honest. So, I'll vote for him. I have an old fashioned commitment to voting. I wonder how many people would tick the 'none of the above' box, if it existed.

Iam64 I can answer this: " I wonder how many people would tick the 'none of the above' box, if it existed.?"

Here in Oz people have to turn up to vote, so if they want 'none of the above' they put in a blank ballot sheet or write something rude on it, or write Mickey Mouse etc. The percentage of these 'informal' votes is usually between 2 and 3 percent. It was 9 percent in a nearby (State) electorate, which had always been Labour. Labour had done the unspeakable; they'd sold some assets including rail freight, and a large railway workshop was in the electorate. Many could not bring them selves to vote Tory but were furious with Labour. In fact, a Tory won, and would have won even if the 9 percent had been Labour votes. There was a landslide against Labour, the Tories took over the State, and commenced an asset sales frenzy.

I guess the moral to the story is don't do a revenge vote - it might back fire on you.

PS The new rail freight owners, after promising no job losses apart from natural attrition, are closing that depot soon, with a loss of 450 local jobs.

Party leaders don't normally turn up to do many votes do they? That's what MPs are for. I seem to remember my MP saying a few years ago "we don't often see the PM"
I think i posted higher up the thread about the truly dismal attendance record of some UKIP members (including NF) when compared to all the other MEPs.
I was talking to a friend yesterday who is a tory councillor (don't all drop dead of shock ) We were wondering why on earth someone might waste a vote in a local election on UKIP as they have no policies that are related to local issues.
I agree Ed M is great if you are in the same room but lacks impact on TV.
I was at a 50th birthday yesterday and reminded a few guests that they were older than NF

Not a UKIP supporter so I hope my opinion counts in answering grannyactivist's question.

I have noticed on the occasions that I have seen the BBC Parliament channel (when searching for cbeebies) that the chamber is often nearly empty.

Presumably the MPs are all busy beavering away in their offices on behalf of their constituents

Most of the real business is done in committee rooms.

Iam64

We're in a marginal, and have had a labour MP for 15 years. He was born and lives locally. His children went to local schools. He works hard for his constituents, seems true to our shared heritage here and seems honest. So, I'll vote for him.

I can fully understand that and it's where my sympathy lies: with those of the political parties that do serve their constituents well but get tarred with the same brush as the political elite. In my humble opinion, what your parliament needs is more of the 'grass roots' MPs at Westminster in the leading roles and fewer of the ones that have been keeping the seats warm for a few decades now.

Our Labour Party now puts every seat up for nominations: the party members get to vote to choose their candidate. This covers 50% of the result. The other 50% is a cabinet or shadow cabinet vote. So seat-warmers can easily get kicked out. The party is now looking for bright new candidates from a wide range of areas: business people, teachers, engineers - anything but the usual lawyers and union execs.

I hope it works.

Good luck with that search Joan, it's something we need in the Uk also. Nothing wrong with lawyers or union execs, but something wrong when almost all MP's share similar backgrounds

Exactly!

Anybody read the latest from NF, he has apparently said that most of those "over 70" are uncomfortable with homosexuality. I'm not far off that age and I don't have any problems with it and from what I have read on this forum most other GNs feel the same. I do resent him, or any other politician, trying to speak for ALL more mature people when we are as diverse as the younger generation. It may be that some older people in his party are anti-gay but that isn't the majority of us. I find the older I get the more tolerant I become (although I have never had a problem with homosexuality - you can't help who you fall in love with).

Absolutely agree with you sun seeker - I laughed when I heard this comment from Nige. Most of the folks on this forum will have lived through the discussions that accompanied the legalisation of homosexuality.
Poor old Nige, surely he wants to encourage young people to support Ukip but I don't suppose this latest comment will do anything to encourage that.

I'm over 70 and worked amongst gays in many areas of life, industries and professions most of my life without any problems whatsoever, at a time when the law was rigid. In those days people tended to conduct themselves responsibly in public and conduct their private life privately. It wasn't perfect but it worked. Farage is just peddling his own prejudices and is certainly not speaking for me. By the way, I am not gay.

Notice that he produces no evidence to back up his assertion about people over the age of 70 - he's just pulled it out of his backside...

And even if people don't agree with single sex marriage, that's fine: they shouldn't then do it. But neither should they prevent others from doing it.

He has a cheek, talking about being tolerant...

I have read all of this thread with great interest. It is interesting to read and see the way the discussion has developed.

I have nothing of great interest to add except for this.

If you have an entitlement to vote, make sure you go out there and use it. Don't expect others to do it for you. If you don't vote then you leave yourself without the right to complain about what happens. When you consider what our forefathers/mothers went through to ensure that everyone is entitled to vote, it's sad that a vast majority are so apathetic they just don't bother.

Oh and for the record, I will be voting Green.

Just remembered I have a question.

If UKIP want no part of the EU can someone tell me why they are putting forward candidates to be elected to the EU Parliament?

Can't answer that one smiter but I do agree with you comments about voting - I vote every time, including council elections. I understand in Australia it is compulsory to vote, not sure I would want that. I think the problem is that people have become disillusioned with politicians and don't think there is much difference no matter who you vote for.