Do we expect too much as a right in Great Britain?

Sorry should have said I remain opened minded despite the fact that I was a member of the Labour party for years..........

They did exactly that to my Nan 'ONCE'. My father went ballistic as they had waited for her to eat her dinner and told her that as it was the Labour Party who picked her up she HAD TO vote Labour.

She was actually quite frightened by it all.

It was very common in the 80's (when I was a member) POGS It certainly made me think again !

Ivanhoe you are doing a great job in alienating people and ensuring that you lose support

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/council_house_building_margaret_thatcher_labour_government-29270

Smeone, can't remember who, asked about this a while back on this thread.

Ivanhoe seems to have left the building. I thought he might be a secret Tory weapon, sent to alienate the non-Tory voters, but apparently not. See the "What the country needs and why the Tory's won't deliver" thread.

Ivanhoe what you say is not wrong but if you say it with too much force you just alienate people and don't get your point across.

Er, is it the case that people who start threads have continuing control over the way they go then?

Ivanhoe does not even recognise when peole are agreeing with his main premise (must look after the vulnerable) but adding that it is also essential to look after the rest of the economy and infrastructure. No use sharing out the pie equitably if no-one can gather the ingredients and cook the pie.

I agree Elegran but i remember from years ago the 'trickle down effect' which never actually happened.

I am not talking just of the trickle down effect, but of the need for money to go into the coffers as well as out. You can't tax income unless there is income to tax, whether it is large amounts of tax from high-flyers or modest amounts from ordinary people getting a decent wage. you can't collect VAT unless value has been added. you can't tax spending unless people spend.

I was trying to convince Ivan that there must be effort on all sides - looking after the vulnerable through welfare and raising the money to pay for that welfare. It takes statesmen to juggle legislation to do that, not career politicians of any hue. He prefers to concentrate on one side of the equation, and to condemn anyone who wants to see a wider picture.

POGS I could have written your post! My eyes were finally opened when I was the Union Rep. for NAEIAC and we were in dispute with the Local Authority about job cuts. The other union affected was a huge one one which represented the majority of local authority workers. I have never come across a more aggressive, bullying, self opinionated bunch of individuals as their so-called 'union reps' .. the only thing they were representing was themselves and their own self-interest. They had no interest in negotiation, rational discussion or trying to save jobs, it was just as you said 'Us against Them'.

A long read about council housing in Hackney, for anyone who wants to read it.
www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/18/-sp-truth-about-gentrification-how-woodberry-down-became-woodberry-park