Do we expect too much as a right in Great Britain?

I'm very pleased that Britain has a fairly comprehensive welfare system although I think we are misleading ourselves if we think it's the most generous in the world. Our state pension is, I believe, if not the lowest then one of the lowest in Europe. The Scandinavian countries have by far much better child care and other benefits, but then they do pay more tax and there are not such extremes of rich and poor.

Anyway, having watched John Pilger's documentary about the plight of the aborigine population in Australia, I wouldn't like to follow their way of doing things.

I am always a bit suspicious about the figure for the lowest state pension anywhere. Here in France (as I understand it), you get one pension pot which is state plus occupational. I don't think you get much if you haven't paid in much. You pay huge contributions when working, which cover health, maternity pay, sickness benefit and pension. We had huge problems explaining the UK system to the people who took our contributions here.

I was asking questions rather than trying to state facts, and hoping other posters, who may be better informed than me, would provide some enlightening views on whether or not our expectations of what the State should provide are too high.

We have relatives and friends all over the world, and they are always amazed about the generous UK benefits and welfare system. In so many ways the best in the world, the most generous and innovative- but they do ask often about how it can be afforded and whether it is not abused.
I think if you have always lived in the UK, it must be hard to see that the UK NHS and social welfare is unique in the world- and was the very best until recently- and the reason why it is threatened.

In answer to your questions Roseq I think it depends on the individual, one perhaps the family, and their views in expectations. Some people seem to expect the lot, ironically often the same people who moan about the nanny state.

Others struggle on, trying to find work, pay their bills, feed the family, etc on what they can afford.

I don't need any ongoing medication, yet, but would expect free prescriptions over a certain age and if chronically ill.

I applaud the move to free school meals for young children (don't think KS2 primary pupils are included) as I see it as helping families to stretch their budget, and hope the meals are nutritionally balanced. I'm pleased there is no complicated means testing for the latter. Some children pay for Breakfast Clubs though, it depends on the funding stream.

Schools have traditionally provided writing materials (paper, pencils, pens, slates, chalks) so it would be a retrograde step to change that.

Free eye checks and bus passes are surely cost effective in terms of spotting problems early or getting people out and about.

I'd add free dental checks to that list and help with dental costs perhaps.

The younger generation (some of them) in my opinion expect everything to be handed to them on a plate. Their parents have mollycoddled them and it must come as a shock to some of them when they have to go out in the real world and earn a living.

We are very lucky in Great Britain with our health service, dental care, free prescriptions (if you are on some benefits you get these free).

I think Britain is seen as a soft touch in relation to benefits, that is why migrants from other countries flock here.

I think the state pension is too low, but that is changing but sadly I and many other women who have recently retired will miss out.

< looks everywhere for young people expecting everything on a plate>
No luck - found lots who worked hard at school and uni, are paying back student loans, working hard now in jobs whilst bringing up children and contributing to the state's coffers

Did find however some miserable older people just moaning about the young and feeling they have a god-given right to retire in their early 60s

My brother has lived in Australia for over 40 years. He has often said how much he misses living in Britain and would love to come back. He then always says 'but if I did, my living standards would fall too much'.

So state provision isn't seen, by him, as something worth coming back for as his lifestyle is greater in Australia. Has reliance on the state improved our lives?

That is the question, Hollydaze, has it improved our lives but at the same time made us more dependent on the State? And is that a good or a bad thing? Is it a cynical move by politicians to try to get us to vote for them?
Is self-reliance better for many of us (bearing in mind we should always be prepared to pay our share to help those in need)?

PS There is no automatic right to a state pension in Australia, but on the other hand I do not think that pensioners in Australia have to pay any income tax.

This is an interesting thread for anyone who no longer lives in the UK. I think that people in the UK do expect as a right many things which are not available in other European countries. We in Germany pay much more for our health care but far as I know there is no mobility benefit. Or even mobilty expectation if you can't get around. The health insurance probably sees to that.
There are no reductions on buses or in theatres or museums just for being old but there might be exceptions which I don't know much about. A disabled card for the car is only for people with MS or amputees.

GrannyTwice very well put!

If I really missed living somewhere, I think I would be prepared to forego a better standard of living for the comfort of feeling "at home".

I'm sure there are all sorts of places where the cost of living is much cheaper than in the UK, but where you feel happy is not just about how much the cost of living is - though, of course, it's very miserable to be poor anywhere especially if everyone else seems to be comfortably off.

I suspect that those who are quite happy with a pared down welfare state are those who have enough money to pay for the essentials (decent housing, health care, food, energy, etc.) for themselves and their families and who are unwilling to pay taxes to fund these essentials for others.

I'm not sure your last paragraph is wholly correct, Eleothan. Apparently the largest group voicing their anger and disbelief at the amount of benefits some of the partipants of the Benefits Street documentary series comprised those on low pay or benefits themselves.

I expect that street was carefully chosen because it was unusual in that it contained enough 'stories' to make a programme rather than being a typical mix of 'hardworking ordinary people', those fallen on hard times and those avoiding making a positive contribution.!

You think there was no other streets that would have provided the same 'entertainment'?

That wasn't my point, though, Penstemmon. The people who complained loudest were not members of the privileged middle-classes whose own children were doing fine, but lower-paid workers and those struggling on benefits themselves.

I was responding to Eleothian's last paragraph, not commenting on the tv programme itself.

GrannyTwice have you just popped over from Mumsnet, what granny doesn't want to retire in her 60's to help look after her grandchildren if required. Or perhaps you are an Alto Ego is the clue in your name!

Ariadne it's good to be able to agree with yourself, I might try it!

Why shouldn't the younger generation think they can 'have it all'
After all, they were brought up/ educated by a government that told them they could have it all.
And why should they think that's its wrong for them to 'want it all' when they see what's going on in the government / police / NHS.
If our 'leaders' act like pigs at a trough, why shouldn't they. Not saying it's right, just looking with their eyes.

A young friend, with 2 young children, posted this on FaceBook today, and I can but agree:

Why My Kids Are NOT the Center of My World

Wait, what did she say? Yeah, you read that right.
This blog post is a bit of a rant and it’s a bit all over the place. My kids are NOT the center of my world, and that’s quite simply because they aren’t the center of any world, anywhere.

If you’re feeling adventurous today, feel free to read on. I’ll forewarn you though, this post contains subject matter about which I feel very strongly. As are most emotionally heated issues – I suppose it’s controversial. But hey, I feel how I feel and that’s not going to be changed.

The emotions that sparked this blog post were given a little bit of a supercharge last evening. Hendrix was picking out what he wanted to take to school for Show & Tell. He chose a little Imaginext action figure – one that he’s had for about two years now. With the action figure comes a little yellow object. For the two years that he’s had this toy, that yellow object has always been a drill to him. He gathered the action figure, the mask that goes with him, and the yellow drill and proudly told me he’d chosen that for Show & Tell. Then, you could see him thinking. And he promptly changed his mind and said to me, “You know what, I better not take this. My teacher will probably think it’s a gun, and then I’ll get in trouble,” put the action figure back, and chose something else.

I often think about the world my boys will grow up in. I often get angry when I think about it. This particular situation just furthered those emotions for me.

In completely selfish terms, bringing my boys into this world was such a great decision – for me. They bring me so much joy, they fill my heart, they make me happy. But I often question whether or not it was the right decision for them. My boys are typical little boys. They love to play guns. They love to play good guy versus bad guy. They love to wrestle and be rowdy. That’s the nature of little boys, as it has been since the beginning of time.

How long will it be before their typical boy-ish behavior gets them suspended from school? How long before they get suspended from daycare??? How long will it be before one of them gets upset with a friend, tells that friend to go away and leave them alone, and subsequently gets labeled as a bully?

The mentality of our society in 2013 is nauseating to me, friends.

Many years ago, there was a time where young boys could run around with their toy guns, killing the bad guys. You could take the toy guns away from the little boys, and they’d find something else around them – a stick, their fingers, etc – and pretend it was a gun. Today, those little boys – if caught doing that – are labeled as threats, and immediate action is taken to remove that threat from the group.

There was a time – not too long ago – when bullying was defined as slamming someone up against a locker and stealing their lunch money. There was a time when kids got called names and got picked on, and they brushed it off and worked through it (ask me how I know this). Now, if Sally calls Susie a bitch (please excuse my language if that offends you), Susie’s whole world crumbles around her, she contemplates suicide, and this society encourages her to feel like her world truly has ended, and she should feel entitled to a world-wide pity party. And Sally – phew! She should be jailed! She should be thrown in juvenile detention for acting like – gasp – a teenage girl acts.

Modern parenting and thinking makes me crazy. The young generations of today (yes, I sound old. I realize I’m only 29 years old.) are being taught that they shouldn’t have to ever put up with anything doesn’t make their hearts feel like rainbow colored unicorns are running around pooping skittles onto piles of marshmallows.

Modern parenting is creating a generation that’s not going to be able to function in society.

Your child, who you cater to every need, who you shelter from all things “evil.” How will this child react when he or she grows into adulthood? “Debbie” graduates from high school and goes to college. She writes her first paper and meets with her professor about that paper and the professor tells her that it’s junk and it will get a failing grade. How will Debbie cope with that if she’s always been made to feel that no one should ever make her feel sad, or criticize anything she does?

“Donna” graduates from college and gets a job – you know, in the real world. She has to work on a committee to come up with a marketing plan. She shoots out an idea, and it gets immediately turned down. What is she to do? Go home and cry because no one liked her idea? Quit her job because she can’t handle rejection?

Modern parents, who drop everything all the time to sit and play with the child, who “needs attention,” or drop what they’re doing to help the child the second he or she gets frustrated? How is Joey going to deal with the fact that there won’t be anyone in his adult life who’s willing to stop what they’re doing, stop living their busy lives, to cater to his every whim?

How do you think Billy is going to cope in the real world, when his boss gives him a vague task to complete, and offers no helpful information as to how to complete this task? Mr. Boss is certainly not going to hold Billy’s hand and help him through the task. Mr. Boss expects it to be completed by Monday. How has Billy been prepared to use his critical thinking and problem solving skills to be able to complete that task? He hasn’t.

I certainly hope that the title of this blog post is starting to make sense. Parents who make their children the center of their universe are not doing anyone any favors. Obviously, as parents, we love our children more than anything. But dropping everything to cater to their every need is only going to lead to a very rude awakening once they enter the real world.

I’m not telling anyone how to parent, and I’m far from perfect myself. But when my kids can’t find something, I refuse to help them until they’ve at least made a concerted effort to find it themselves. This isn’t being mean, it’s teaching them to at least attempt to solve a problem themselves before just giving up and asking for help.

When the TV gets turned off after the allotted time on the weekends, my kids are instructed to go play together in their room. I love and miss them during the work week, but I am not just a mom, I’m also Matt’s wife, I’m also Stephanie, and I also run our household. There are things I have to get done, and my boys understand that. My children – while Matt and I both spend time playing with them – understand that the world doesn’t begin and end with them. This allows them to find ways to entertain themselves, it builds imagination, and it teaches them to get along with each other without constant intervention.

We follow the rules and don’t take toy guns or weapons to daycare. But I’ll be darned if my boys aren’t allowed to be little boys when they’re at home. They have several toy guns and it’s constantly a good guy vs. bad guy battle in my house. I feel like this teaches them to do the things they want to do, while respecting other’s rules and regulations. It also teaches them that there are differing opinions about things in this world and that’s ok. We can like and believe in the things we want, while respecting that others may not agree with us.

My children are all but ignored when they ask for something without using manners. They understand that when someone addresses or speaks to them, they are to speak back. When we go out to eat, we don’t take 5 electronic devices to keep them “entertained” for the 15 minutes we have to wait for our food. If Hendrix is “bored” (and I use that term loosely), then he can put on his jacket and go play outside.

Everyone parents differently, and I respect that. The current generation may be one that expects nothing less than everything from this world. But I know of two gentlemen that are going to be able to accept failure and move on having learned something from it.

I know of two gentleman who will be hurt emotionally, but who will be able to work through the hurt and carry on with life. I will cushion the emotional fall as much as a mom can, but I will not completely prevent it from happening. They will not expect whoever hurt them to be punished. Heck, I might even teach my children the power of forgiveness.

These two gentlemen will understand the value of hard work, and know that hard work is required to get where one wants to be in life.

They will, while understanding the need for caution, appreciate that not everyone out there is out to get them. Not everyone is out to do evil things.

These gentlemen will understand that there are about a gazillion people in this world. While they are incredibly special to me and my family, they are not special to the world. That probably sounds terrible, but people! It’s the harsh truth, and it needs embraced!

I know that I can’t change the mindset of modern parents. That’s never been and never will be my goal. I just want to make sure that I raise my sons to grow into respectable men who can thrive and succeed, due to having been prepared to do so.

My kids are not the center of my world because I love them enough not to allow them to be.

Have a great weekend, friends.

CRIKEY, Phew , OHH my sweet Lord,

sorry I found that sad .

There is a cover for every pie !!

Thank you for posting that Granjura

I have often said that I would willingly swop a whole range of pensioner benefits; prescriptions, tv licences, bus passes, winter fuel allowance etc for a higher basic pension that left me free to decide how I spend my money. I would ditch the free school lunches for all infant school children plan as well. But free lunches for children from poor and deprived homes, absolutely, breakfast clubs ditto, although many, if not all of these are paid for by charities, not the state.

Rather than justifying our benefits to the Australians, why not ask them why a wealthy country like theirs cannot ensure that poor children have enough nutrition to benefit from their education and universal pensions and a good free health service. The inequalities in the USA are even worse. I do not know the details of Obamacare but before it something like 15 million people in the US were without any medical care at all. I once saw a programme about a UK doctor running a free surgery in the USA for those without medical insurance. Among the patients was a young mother with 3 small children and terminal breast cancer for which she had not received any treatment because she could not afford it.

Our benefits are in line with those elsewhere in Europe. We should in general be proud of them. I do think that some could be pruned but when you see the mess that Ian Duncan-Smith is making of some of the changes; a seriously mentally ill man locally died of starvation because he was erroneously declared fit to work and he was too ill and isolated to cope with an appeal, I think we should stay as we are.

Although I don't think children should be unduly indulged and their every whim catered for, in the main I don't agree with what was said by this mother. I also think this person is rather too certain of the rightness of her own ideas and I don't accept that there is a uniform "mindset" that modern parents have.

I don't understand what allowing a little boy to play with a toy gun has to do with the original premise. Personally, I would not buy a toy gun (or any sort of militaristic paraphenalia) for a boy or a girl. As to the "good guy/bad guy" scenario, I remember that the old westerns almost invariably portrayed the "good guy" as a white American cowboy and the "bad guy" as an Indian, which I think was a simplistic and damaging message.

It seems that the person who posted this item is from the USA and is using the issue of child rearing to sneak in several wider political points.