school children in nappies

Here's one school's policy - I must admit I was surprised!

www.woolgrove.herts.sch.uk/information/policies/changingnappies.pdf

I would have thought all schools should now be equipped with full facilities for disabled pupils or trying to get them.
Schools are taking more children with physical disabilities, (they always used to be shunted off to "special schools" for the physically disabled); There are likely to be more children needing the facilities to deal with such issues.

This is not just an issue about parents who have not bothered to get the children potty trained.

There will always be kids that have the odd accident, but this does not does not excuse the parents who have never put in the effort to get their children toilet trained in the first place.

I'm confused now! Nina did the article give any information about the school the teacher was talking about...?

I also was going to suggest that children with disabilities, physical or learning, may need to be changed. I know that schools for children with these problems have nappy changing and even bathing facilities. The are necessary and are there for the benefit of all. May it is because many children with disabilities do attend mainstream now.

Unless a child has special needs, surely they should not be using nappies at 5 to 6 years of age

We are friendly with a couple whose 5 year old is still in nappies and I have wondered whether the modern, comfortable 'stay dry' nappies haven't contributed to this state of affairs. There is no trigger of discomfort due to a wet nappy, and therefore no impetus for change. Just a thought! Especially as I remember my 2 sometimes pulling at their sodden towelling nappies clearly having noticed that they are uncomfortable.

I think this is a Special Needs Academy for 5-11 year olds.

DS used to crawl out of his nappy like a snail shedding its shell.

Sorry, Aka - I just googled and thought it looked appropriate for the thread, but I was wrong.

The school my DGDs attend has a policy of not accepting children still in nappies. I don't know how strictly they enforce this, or what arrangements are made for disabled children. If a child has an toilet-related accident a parent is phoned to come and either change them or take them home.

NP Ana I just recognised the policy as one which is fairly standard in Special Schools I used to work with.

We have had this discussion before. The number of children starting in school nurseries (3+) and direct into Reception classes still in nappies has increased. This is due to an increase in the number of children with SEND attending mainstream school and also because some parents are leaving it later to toilet train, (I do think the ease of disposables has contributed to this !) I was in a hurry to get rid of the nappy bucket with its stew of Terry nappies and napisan!

It is difficult for schools to get it right. Only today I was at the school where I am a governor. There a young lad comes into run a sports activity. He is popular with the children and one little girl (6/7 yrs) spontaneously ran up to him and gave him a welcome hug. He had to put his hands in the air so as not to be seen to be being 'inappropriate' I find this very sad. However there are parents who would be paranoid enough to bring a complaint if he had simply and briefly returned the hug equally spontaneously.
What would be your response?

My DGS who has autism was in nappies until the age of 7. He started out at a primary school where they were prepared to change him, and since then has attended special needs schools where they are very used to this. Although not in nappies now, he needs an adult with him sometimes when he has to go to the loo.
Children [who don't have autism or any disabilities at all] now start primary school at 4 years old which is very young, and they are expected to take themselves to the loo and of course not be in nappies.That extra year from being 4 to being five can make all the difference in lots of ways, and I wish they had not changed it , 5 years old is time enough to start school.

The current view is that there is a hormone which kicks in and stops children needing nappies at night. This was total news to me, but others might have an opinion? It also seems that the age for potty training gets later with each generation. My MIL assured me that my husband was potty trained by a year and that she used to put him back to front on the loo, so that he could hold onto the pipe and not fall down through the seat. Hmmmm? In the eighties the thinking was that they had to be two to have control. Now three seems to be the accepted age in my daughter's circle.
I agree with previous posters about the relative comfort of modern disposables re soggy terry towelling. Also our toddlers had huge padded rear ends, not the natty streamlined ones they get with modern nappies. Aesthetics alone made us want to get them into pants

Penstemmon I do agree re the spontaneous hug. As a retired teacher, I often get such hugs when I go into my old school. Because I am female and a grandmother, I have no problem in returning the hugs, but I know it is not the same for male teachers. A dear friend was even advised to look at the ceiling when he was supervising Year 3 boys getting changed for swimming. Some schools even operate a 'no touch' policy for all which must be so hard when a child is upset or hurt. What a strange society we are becoming!

My DS insists that she 'trained' all of her children to use the potty from a few weeks old. Absolute nonsense but you try telling her. She swears she never had a dirty nappy in all three of her children. Poor little souls hanging over a pot at 8 weeks old.

We were told to give 'appropriate ' hugs to children if they needed comforting. Side by side with an arm around the shoulder. The problem is that with a lot of children with LD they plonk themselves on your lap and hug you for all they are worth and very rewarding it is too. I always returned the hugs from children or adults with LD whom I worked with. They have often experienced enough rejection without me adding to it.

Holding the baby out over a pot was that was Truby King style child rearing.

It's the mum that is trained there not the child.

My grandson goes with me to pick up his sister from primary school. He hugs teachers, male and female, and they hug him. Children with ASD do not behave appropriately for each situation, so it's impossible to stop him.

This was a main stream school. I am fully aware that some special needs children are still in nappies in late childhood and some for life.

As I said I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs of children starting school in nappies. I just can't see how this sits with the 'no touch policy'
The article states 'head teachers are legally obliged to accept children whether toilet trained or not'

Yes Nina I think that is true, schools do have to accept them.Again, when our children were 5 years old [the term after their 5th birthday,] they started school, and were all old enough to take themselves to the loo.That extra year makes a tremendous difference to children.

I think the 'hug' thing is a huge problem now for teachers. If I was a teacher now, I would hug back [otherwise it's rejection] but not instigate any hugs.

Schools may be legally obliged to take children (with no disabilities) who are still in nappies, but are they legally obliged to change them?

Just don't get this- surely a child without disability or severe special needs should not be in nappies by the age of 4? Here children also begin school aged 4, and all parents know that it is their 'duty' to ensure they take every step possible to ensure kids can be toilet automnomous by school start.

Is there any GN member here who can remember any of their children to be in nappies by age 4 (with above proviso for SN)? I think modern nappies are to blame as they keep kids so comfortable and dry, and not having to wash (and even worse, dry them before we had dryers) not encouraging parents to toilet train. (bah humbug- I know, but ...)

I remember when my older son was 2 and a half he did two mornings a week at a private nursery which was considered very unorthodox as the "laid back" lady who ran it would accept children in nappies, usually boys, as she maintained they would just copy the children who had mastered the art of using the toilet. My son initially wore nappies there for a week or two and was probably dry by 2 and three quarters, which was considered late then, but in retrospect I think I mixed with too many competitive mothers with daughters who were all dry day and night by 2ish. By the time both my children entered the nursery attached to their school at 3 and a quarter, it was expected that all children were completely toilet trained they wouldn't have been allowed to attend in nappies. That was some 20 odd years ago and I imagine that would have been pretty standard around the country then.

Undoubtedly toilet training some children can be tedious and time consuming but I think most people get there in the end, albeit with the odd accident. Taking disabilities out of the equation, I wonder why some parents are finding it so hard to follow through on such a basic task it seems to suggest that this is a new phenomenon, I wonder whether we had less distractions can't help noticing how many mothers seem more involved with their phone than their child.

I agree that the longer parents leave potty training the harder it is. Kids just get used to doing it in their pants and then resist for longer. I think a combo of full time working mums and disposables is probably the cause. I remember spending an intensive 2 or 3 weeks of staying in and letting the kids run around with no pants on and popping them on the potty every 30 minutes or so and they eventually got the message, this was around 2 years old for the girls and a couple of months later for the boys. My DD has had big problems with her 6 year old DD who just holds on all day and has had a succession of urinary infections for the last couple of years. Although I do think late potty training is behind this kind of problem.

I read that it is mainly middle class parents who work full time who have this problem. it must be sooo hard for them having to go out to work every day and bring back all that money to have luxury holidays etc . They should be thinking about putting their kids first and maybe not going back full time until the youngest is at school. Before anyone berates me about the rising cost of living, I will say that Ive been there and I did not work full time till my girl was 13 and we managed, we didn't have lots of fancy holidays abroad and never got new furniture but we were happy and kept out of debt. This obsession of keeping up with living standards is ruining many families. Many years ago it was called keeping up with the Joneses.