Katie Hopkins on dementia patients

I've been there, petallus so I agree with you.

I wouldn't be surprised if Katie Hopkins gets picked for a stint in I'm a Celebrity come November.

If she is, I might even watch it.

petallus euphemisms such as 'being assisted to die' are a bit of a cop-out I think.

What you're really saying is if you should become demented you want someone to kill you.

And who would you like to perform the act?

Since I probably would not be in a position to get myself over to Sweden or whatever, a physician. Or if the law is ever changed, someone official (like Digitas) who I could form a prior contract with when I was still compos mentis.

But really, I can't come up with a sound answer to such a complex problem in five minutes!

Actually Riverwalk I don't want to 'cop out' of anything. You can say 'kill' if you want to.

And doesn't it happen sometimes when people are dying in pain that physicians administer a lethal dose of morphine? I suppose that could be referred to as 'killing' as well.

But someone with severe dementia would not be able to feed themselves, so maybe I'd say withdraw whatever help was being given to me to keep me alive.

Anybody who does not want to make those kind of arrangements wouldn't have to.

I don't want to disappoint Katie but I think I'm just as much full of life and fun as I was at 20 - possibly more so because I don't take myself so seriously now.

Is she going to bash Terry Pratchett over the head with a hammer herself, or will she get some one else to do it? It's terrible the way he keeps cluttering the place up, writing books.

She also forgets the huge benefit we are to the economy.www.saga.co.uk/money/news/2014/june/over-50s-spending-helps-boost-youth-employment.aspx

Without us unemployment would rocket.

Petallus it must be remembered that dementia is many and varied ailment. To dwell on the worst and most difficult cases is liking assuming every rash is leprosy. My personal experience is of vascular dementia, an aunt and uncle both have it. My uncle could carry on a perfectly rational discussion with people until the day he die, it was just he had lost his long and short term memory so what ever we talked about had to be in the present. His care home had a beautiful garden and he enjoyed the garden and the birds that came to it and we would have very pleasant conversations about what we could see. He was happy and content to the end. My aunt seems happy and content where she lives. She watches life around her in the day room, she still has a bit of memory and she always recognises me when I arrive. Her main problem is physical frailty, she is 96, and is too frail to walk anymore.

I agree Flickety.

It's not a case of 'dwelling on' the worst cases, just acknowledging that they exist.

Not everyone with dementia sits contentedly admiring the roses (although I am pleased that your aunt is doing well). As you know, some suffer terribly, living a life of confusion and torment.

I know of a tragic case at the moment. A man who had been a well known and successful architect recently developed Alzheimers in his mid 60s. Already he is unable to feed himself and is becoming aggressive and his family don't know how long they will be able to keep him at home.

I believe you can make provision that, should you arrive at a state where it is medically assessed that you have no quality of life and no prospect of recovery, all interventions, bar keeping you as comfortable as possible, should be withdrawn. For instance, no antibiotics would be used to combat pneumonia or other infections.

I can see your point petallus about those Alzheimer sufferers whose lives become a living nightmare, and most of us would dread ending up in this way or having to see it happen to anyone we know. However, this comment by KH seemed almost contemptuous of people with dementia rather than being a compassionate response to suffering.

My understanding is that to relieve pain increasing amounts of drugs can be administered, even if that may cause or hasten death. But drugs cannot be administered with the intention of causing death. Perhaps those who have been in the nursing or medical profession can clarify.

I agree with you Flickety that the contribution of many older people is often overlooked. However, even if someone can't or won't make much of a contribution to society, they should not be consigned to the scrapheap. I'm sure you don't mean that, but we are increasingly being encouraged to look at people in terms of their value to society rather than their intrinsic value as human beings.

It also occurred to me that once there is an assumption that a person with dementia would really be better off dead, couldn't this idea then be extended to other people who might be considered to be in torment or to have no quality of life - those with profound brain damage/learning difficulties, intractable psychiatric illnesses, etc. etc.

It would be useful to have information on pain relief in terminal care from someone who is or has been involved in palliative care. Both my parents died of bowel cancer. In both cases towards the end they were in a great deal of pain and were given a large dose of dimorphine to relieve this. I was warned in both cases that this had a side effect of restricting breathing and may result in death but is done to keep a patient out of severe pain. It is not done actively to end someone's life.

I'm not sure that Katie Hopkins is that aware of the complex issues involved. Perhaps we should all consider how we would like to be treated if life becomes too difficult and make a living will to this effect. I like [Eleothan's] idea of intrinsic value as a human being.

But generally speaking discussion is all about the worst cases, when I visited my aunt yesterday another resident was crying in her chair and on other visits it has been obvious that she is unhappy inside her self. I do appreciate that some are far worse than that. But like many diseases, the majority do not reach the worst end of the spectrum.

I think we need to remember that in the early stages, in particular the disease is manageable and the person with it can function almost normally with support. I was at a meeting with someone this week, who has been in the early stages for sometime, not yet effecting him enough to seek help, but sufficient for those who have known him a long time to recognise the memory loss and repetition of questions. I was on holiday recently with a friend who is rapidly reaching the stage where she will be unable to live independently. In a familiar location with those she knows about her she is still the person she always was, although it is now clear that holidays away from home now cause problems.

Don't understand "stole our children's future" comment can someone explain please?

Thanks

Don't understand "stole our children's future" comment can someone explain please?

Jackie, if we are 'baby boomers' or just a bit older I presume, we apparently took, took, took without a thought for the future, we had higher education paid for by the State, we were able to buy houses cheaply and are now hogging them and not allowing younger people to move into larger houses because many of us want to stay in our homes, we have pensions which they may not be able to afford, etc etc. There is a thread where someone from the Intergenerational Foundation asked us questions - and got answers!

The Intergenerational Foundation researches fairness between generations. It seems to be producing a younger generation who are resentful of older people. Of course, we older people could never have afforded some of the 'jollies' that younger people treat themselves to and consequently moan that they cannot afford to buy a house. Trip to Brazil for the football anyone? A week in a tent in Wales or Cornwall was more like it in my day.

Chris Huhne apparently has jumped on to this bandwagon since he was released from prison; hence my comment about an old lady unable to afford her heating having 'stolen' the future of people like multi-millionaires Huhne and Hopkins who may like to see us all euthanised once we are no longer of any use.

Rant over!

I think the other thread was in response to a question by Angus Hanton (?) if you are interested!

The quote was from a book by David Willetts’ “The Pinch: how the baby boomers took their children’s future – and why they should give it back“

There is good blog at blog.barrypearson.co.uk/?p=3784 demolishing "Some baby boom myths" including the one promulgated by David Willets.

Thanks Elegran.