Ukrainan Crash

Did they ever have a proper vote on it?

If Putin is a bully, how many people are we willing to sacrifice to stand up to him? That is the bottom line.

Another dreadful tragedy with so many innocent people killed. It's not a good year for Malaysian airlines. Sympathy to all concerned,
Regarding the black box, I would far rather the Americans had it than the Russians.

Well that's absolutely it! So what's the answer? I don't think any of us knows that, and in any case whose to say we'd win?!! I afraid the West has got something of a problem in containing this particular man. Is the problem totally Putin? the Russian mafia could be at work here. Is the downing of this aircraft a deliberate act to see what the West will do? All sorts of scenarios, none of which we can possible know, which of course is the most frightening thing of all. Can't help but feel that it would have been better to have treated Putin much more cautiously in the first place instead of treating him like a long lost friend, which he most certainly is not!

Me too henetha!!

I don't think the west can trust Putin one inch!

I don't think there is anything to indicate Putin wants more than Crimea.

and, looking at this, what was the point?

separatist holds up cuddly toy

At least he looks shocked himself.

Interesting fact I came across recently: The Russian economy is similar in size to the Italian economy. Maybe they need to sell their gas even more than other countries need to buy it?

Yep. There's that.

I don't think Putln is that interested in the welfare of his people particularly the impoverished ones! No welfare state for them, so I'm now sure that the loss of gas revenue would concern him that much! He knows that we have a completely different attitude to humanitarian matters, for us it does matter, and no doubt he will exploit this if push comes to shove!

It seems that separatists are now preventing investigators from reaching the crash site. Would they be doing that if they weren't responsible? QED

No doubt the separatists (monsters!) are well aware that the investigators will be able to tell exactly who, what and how that plane was brought down. How do they know this? Well surprise surprise, courtesy of western journalist's, and the people they have been interviewing. Why oh Why can't they just for once keep quiet! These people watch TV in exactly the same way as we do satellite and all, so forewarned is forearmed! Why are we SO stupid!!

I also wonder how the rest of Europe can be so crazy as to rely on Russia for their gas. I heard on the radio last night Germany is the biggest exporter to Russia while it also gets all it's gas from them. It seems incredibly naive of their government if true.

Perhaps a bit unfair to call the separatists "monsters" in this instance.This was most likely a terrible mistake.

With satellite technology and the fact this is a (civil) war area there must be pictures of the event.

I'll go with calling them monsters - a group of poorly trained but well equipped terrorists ( this is not a 'proper' war) who have sophisticated equipment they don't know how to use properly firing into the sky where they know full well civilian planes may be. Calling it a mistake is nonsense - negligent homicide at the very least - if a man with no license at the wheel of a powerful car ploughed into a group of schoolchildren, would you call that a mistake or demand he was charged with at least manslaughter ?

I don't think that this was the result of someone taking a pot shot at the sky; they had been trained and knew what they were doing. Most other airlines, or so I believe [including Russian ones] were no longer using that air space. I'm afraid that I'm being a bit 'head in the sand' about the whole event, though, because I find it unbelieveably upsetting [I know it's cowardly of me].

Well if, in the unlikely event, they weren't monsters then, they certainly are behaving like monsters now. Looting the site, standing holding a child's soft toy like a trophy, stealing money, and anything else they can lay their mucky paws on, (even taking peoples credit cards!) not allowing investigators to do their job, threatening them so that they are forced to back off!! bodies being spirited away, need I go on?! Don't exactly look like people who are horrified at what they've done! and If that's not monstrous then I don't know what is!!!

Can only agree with that, niggly.

Yes niggly absolutely! And also, the area was not a no fly zone ( although it should have been)- Virgin for example were flying over once a week. And I don't believe for one minute they were properly trained or else they would have recognised a civilian aircraft - and if they were properly trained and did recognise it... Well damned if they did and damned if they didn't .

I felt disgusted by the method of the BBC news reporting - I know they do the whole sensationlist bit now as well but it sounded more like lines from a cheap novel.

Apparently, they have received training but there is some confusion over recognising the difference between the responders (which indicate if it is a commercial airline or military).

According to the news, they don't know yet what brought the plane down.

It isn't unusual for a country to refuse or limit immediate access to a crash site - they will be equally nervous about items being removed or evidence being faked and let's face it, they're not the most rational of people are they.

And of course it's absolutely perfectly normal for bodies to be left out in the open isn't it for 2 days? I never watch any news other than C4, so I'll see what they have to say.

Apparently a lot of airlines were using that route to save on fuel; I don't think it was a no-fly zone, rather it was advised not to use that airspace.

It has shocked so many people worldwide. The terrorists, backed by Russia, claimed they thought it was a military aircraft, but if so many airlines use that route, that seems like a convenient lie.

Wars and rumours of wars in the Bible I`m not particularly religious but have been thinking of that text a lot recently. There are just so many going on at the moment.

I`m pro America because I think we need their expertise in many things