English GN's referendeum

Well where to begin with regard to Salmond's CON

If we just look at the past few days at two of his announcements

Businesses who take their HQ out of Scotland - Salmond announced that the tax will be generated by where the business' activity takes place.

NOT TRUE - only with regard to VAT which is an EU tax. So presumably Scotland will have to sort that out either by using the existing rules, or making it's own form of income tax. However the EU has long been apposed to the 0% rate in the UK which covers life's necessities such as food, so 0% will almost certainly not be accepted by the EU.
Corporation tax is raised on the bottom line and that is due in the country the business resides - so if it's HQ is England then the tax will be due in England.

"Scotland will be a more equal society - more along the lines of a Scandinavian Country."

Well not if he also promises a lower tax country like the 18% corporation tax, he proudly announces.

If we look at the Scandinavian rates - or equivalent e.g.VAT. There are also some exclusions and exceptions but these make for a reasonable comparison

Denmark 24% corporation tax 46% - 61% income tax and 25%VAT across the board.

Norway 27% corporation tax 0% - 46.8% income tax 15 - 25% VAT no exceptions

Sweden 21% corporation tax 28.89% - 57% income tax 6% - 15% and 25% VAT -

UK 21% corporation tax 20% - 45% income tax 0% food, books. 5% fuel 20% standard rate.

I won't even start on comparing the cost of living in these countries with the UK.

So Mr Salmond how do you propose to raise the tax necessary to achieve such a land of milk and honey?

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a fairer society and for us to get back to a more principled morality with regard to the poor and equality of opportunity for all but I absolutely know that none of that can be achieved without higher taxation, and that is the sticking point for many people.

Granyy23

The only reference I see on here to the 'evil' English is your own Hollydaze

Yes, the word evil has only been used by me and it wasn't meant to be taken literally (hence the exclamation mark) although what the comment represented is, nonetheless, accurate.

^ Can we have specific examples please of where Scottish G'netters have denigrated the English?^

No, I'm not going to trawl through GN looking for individual posts that I have read where comments have been made. Sometimes the comments are not direct but are implied - as happens on many forums.

For as long as I can remember the Welsh, Irish and the Scots have all complained about the English - it isn't anything new

They just keep thinking up more and more ways of spending taxpayers' money with more and more jobs for the boys (and girls) and more and more layers of government.

Fed up with them all.

John Redwood, now there's a wild-eyed Thatcherite loon from the past. I thought he'd been pushed up into the Lords years ago.

I always got the impression,*AnnieB*, that glorious, geen mid- and western Wales were filled with vast quantities of beautiful scenery and excellent sheep. I remember once trying to obtain a beer or two on Rhyader on a Sunday but that's another story...

papaoscar, with respect you have divided Wales into North and South which does show very little knowledge or only fleeting visits to the areas. You omitted Mid Wales and West Wales .

Ancient though I feel at the moment, I did have the pleasure over most of my working life of regularly visiting all parts of the UK (but not Ireland). This enabled me to form my own opinions about what I had seen and the various nationalities I had encountered. My conclusions were, broadly:

1) That the UK is a mainly beautiful country, peopled a group of nations who had formed, after a tempestuous past, a homogenous, tolerant and reasonable society.

2) That national differences were, indeed, evident all over the place, but that in general anybody could travel from north to south to east to west without too much fear of serious intimidation or prejudice. True there were areas of minor differences: southern English people often had a patronising view of northerners, as did those from Yorkshire and Lancashire about each other and southerners. North and south Waleans were the same regarding each other. Lowlands and highlands Scots were often exactly the same, whereas Islanders often regarded themselves more Norse than Scots.

3) That more serious pockets of petty local prejudice did exist: I knew that there were areas and places in Wales and Scotland (and even, sadly, sometimes the north-east of England) where I would be less than well received just because I came from Southern England.

4) That the consequences of the Thatcher years had upset the applecart everywhere - certainly not only in Scotland - leaving the country in a much less united state.

Now, I don't have to justify specific cases of prejudice. If you look hard enough you can always find evidence to confirm your own views and opinions whatever they are (this is one of my gripes at the moment as regards the media in general). I haven't been to Scotland for many years so cannot judge the prevailing mood of the moment on the ground. I suspect, however, that the way this referendum has been handled has reopened many wounds and folk-memories, revived animosities and encouraged sectarianism and racism. I find that certain representatives of the 'yes' campaign have an unpleasantly hostile, aggressive and nationalistic attitude which I am sure is most unhelpful. I hope that it does not result in widespread social unrest.

Redwood is campaigning for an English parliament, he gave an interview this morning

I agree with you durhamjen when you say I think if they vote no, politicians at Westminster will breathe a huge sigh of relief and carry on as usual. I have no confidence that the promises of "extra powers" will come true, especially as the various parties have differing ideas on what those "powers" should be.

I also think that, after a Yes result, a lot of people in the rest of the UK might think "Why are we putting up with how Westminster treat us?" and might be galvanised to make changes in their political systems.

Fortunately, granny23, there are only 26 bishops in the Lords.

Hasn't that already been tried, rosequartz, about reform of the House of Lords?
The more it is reformed, the more undemocratic it seems to become.
I wouldn't blame the Scots at all if they left us for just that reason, but I would say that, wouldn't I?

I think if they vote no, politicians at Westminster will breathe a huge sigh of relief and carry on as usual.
By the way, I'm English and I do not think I have said anything terrible about the Scottish nation.

I hope the dragon wouldn't be squashed, he might not be able to roar and breathe enough fire!

Granny23 I would agree with you about the House of Lords and what I think is worse is its growth in recent years, each political party filling it with more and more of their cronies.

However, is that a reason to leave us? Would we be better together and to start a campaign to reform the upper house, to make it leaner and more democratic? That way we could have a chance of some real reforms - this referendum is giving the politicians of all parties a real jolt and perhaps they will start listening.

I'd say Scottish Gransnetters have been more charitable to the English than non-Scots ones have to the Scots!

rosequartz, a squashed dragon? most definitely the best National Anthem

*Since when have the English been evil!

Reading some posts on GN (including this thread) is how it often reads.*

The only reference I see on here to the 'evil' English is your own Hollydaze. Can we have specific examples please of where Scottish G'netters have denigrated the English? The YES campaign is about Scotland's right to self determination - the choice is between being an independent country or remaining in the UK. The complaints are directed at the unrepresentative balance of the Westminster Parlimentary system. If I say, for example, that I object strongly to an unelected bunch of men from the Church of England having the power to block legislation in my Parliament, then this is not because I have anything against the Church of England (each to their own ) but because their Bishops' right to sit in the House of Lords is stunningly undemocratic. I say that mainly as a feminist and agnostic rather than as a Nationalist.

whitewave you say : Mind you I am not sure why people trust Salmond. I have a feeling that he will pull off the biggest CON ever if the vote is Yes.

What sort of a CON do you think might be pulled off?

With the best National Anthem!

Iam, you are so right, whilst there are some English who do think England is the UK, I am guilty of assuming fifty nine million do, the injustices rained down have been from Westminster , so I apologise to those who have acknowledged we are a country, thank you x

When I look at the distinctive Union Jack flag, I do not see separate flags (although I know they are there) I see one flag red,white and blue. To me it represents decency, safety, pride and a united Great Britain. If the Scottish nationalists get their way and vote to leave the union then so be it. But I think the flag should stay exactly as it is. After all it is our brand.

we are not even included in the UK flag anyway

If Scotland says yes and they have to re-design the Union (?) Jack then will they include the cross of St David or squash a little dragon in the corner somewhere as a concession?

Yet I do always think of the Welsh as a separate country. I think we all do, deep down.

Agreed - I think most people do see four distinct countries (apart from some politicians).

Since when have the English been evil!

Reading some posts on GN (including this thread) is how it often reads.

Mind you I am not sure why people trust Salmond. I have a feeling that he will pull off the biggest CON ever if the vote is Yes.

I wonder why Iam64.