TTIP & what 38 Degrees are up against

Minimouse The absolute arrogance and rudeness of these Committee members took my breath away. How extraordinarily dismissive and bullying they were when speaking to David Babbs of 38 Degrees:

"We are not here to be challenged. You are here to be challenged. Let's understand the rules of it"

"Mr Babbs - we will not argue, we will ask the questions."

"Don't you think it is wholly irresponsible to be encouraging your membership to lobby their MPs to pull out of this agreement, based on an entirely pre-conceived idea that this is a bad thing for the UK, when you don't know, the trades unions don't know, the CBI don't know, so given the fact that you have not consulted any experts where does this arrogance come from that you presume that you know better than everyone else?"

David Babbs replied that, it being the case that nobody knows what is going to be in this TTIP Agreement, wasn't it arrogant of David Cameron to say he was going to "put a rocket launcher" behind this? David Babbs was immediately "shut down".

These Committee members surely have a duty to address the worries of a large number of people who are concerned at the secrecy of these TTIP talks. The member who said DB was irresponsible, acknowledged that nobody knows anything about what is happening in these talks. Given that that is the case, how is the Select Committee in a better position to argue that the TTIP talks will yield benefits for the people of this country?

38 Degrees and other groups concerned about the TTIP talks have noted the statements made by multi-nationals (e.g. that they want to get rid of "trade irritants" (these include things like certain Health & Safety regulations) and have examined previous and existing trade agreements to see what sorts of clauses are included (such as the Investor State Dispute Settlement provisions - allowing companies to sue governments)and have formed a view as to what the TTIP Agreement is likely to contain. The belief is that it will enshrine rules regarding automatic tendering of public services and other measures that will increase the powers of multinationals and decrease the rights of the ordinary citizen.

If these talks are so harmless and beneficial for everybody - why the huge amount of secrecy?

I am absolutely shocked by the way David Babbs was spoken to.
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Thanks minimouse. that rather aligns with a posting I put on the health boards about a meeting I went to about the privatization of the NHS. At the meeting the issue of TTIP arose and its relevance to what is happening within the NHS was clear. I don't know how much democracy means anymore, I think we are run by the big corporations now and politicians have become very corrupt and don't, for the most part, actually represent their constituents any longer.

I feel I am reeling these days at the number of petitions coming through and the massive changes that are taking place around us. It's hard to keep up with it all and I feel that's what 'they' want. Most people are too busy to be able to take notice until it's too late. Meanwhile, inequality rises, those in charge get richer and reward their friends and we are encouraged to get riled up about immigration which I think is a way of setting us at each other and distracting us from other issues, like TTIP.

Having been out on the streets campaigning against TTIP I actually got very angry listening to this exchange. I have spent many hours researching TTIP and find the patronising arrogance demonstrated here to be typical of the steamroller approach to getting it through.
I am so glad that 38 degrees exists and is willing to make challenges on behalf of its members, because I believe that parliamentarians have stopped listening to the electorate.

It seems like the only parties that want to stop the TTIP are the Green party and the NHA party. I had the same email, minimouse. I get annoyed with 38 degrees always asking for money but I think I will sign up to it this time, simply because of the pat on the head attitude.

durhamjen I had exactly the same response, for the same reason. In the past I've donated to 38 degrees on an ad hoc basis, but there's something about being patronised by politicians that really rankles with me, so I've signed up to a small amount by direct debit in order to 'put my money where my mouth is'.

I do send money to 38 Degrees now and again, and now seems like a particularly good time.

I brought TTIP up with my local MP. She is young, keen and has quite a high media profile. I heard nothing from her. She seems to be interested only in campaigns that nobody could really take offence at - pay day loans, violence against women, etc. etc. I think that's when you know if a politician is really willing to stick their neck out - when something is more contentious and may put them in the firing line so far as other parties - or even the media - are concerned.

With more people becoming aware of and starting to oppose TTIP, I expect the very hostile and bullying attitude that David Babbs came up against in the Business Select Committee meeting will gather momentum.

I simply couldn't believe what I was listening to!
These people are our "employees" we pay their salary, and lucrative pension. We decide what we would like them to do over a period of years through the mandate. It is time they learned their place.

It's good to see some interest in this on GN. It seems to keep going under the radar - and in the wider world, too!

whitewave I think they like to forget that they're our employees, they prefer to believe that they're our rulers - as do big businesses!

It just seems that we're being bombarded with 'issues' these days and the conspiracy theorist in me can't help feeling that 'they' hope that this will lead us to just crawl away and let them do what they want because we just can't cope with it all.

Just in my locality we're dealing with overdevelopment (some of it on flood plains, naturally!) without increased infrastructure, fracking, flightpath changes including the possibility of over half a million flights per year over us! We even have five MPs fighting against it, but it's all being pressed for by big business.

It's great that we have 38 Degrees to turn to. I think that often there are many people who protest, but in scattered groups. 38 Degrees brings everyone together and really shows the numbers of people who are not happy with things.

minimouse we have the same set of problems where I live. Serious flooding in 2007 and before yet building on the flood plain continues. Two massive shopping centre developments, local campaigns against including the local MP to no avail. Massive traffic congestion, inadequate infrastructure yet nothing can stand in the way of the great God shopping/business.
I have just discovered the extent to which the NHS is being undermined. There is so much going on, I cant keep up with it. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I do think they don't want us to notice what they're doing while they feather their own nests.
I read today about the East Coast rail franchise which was taken back under state control, turned from a financial failure into a profitable business with a sizeable injection of taxpayer money and now it is being re-privatised with Virgin and Stagecoach fighting for it. Great enterprises those, ha, ha.
I feel as though the world has gone mad!

Very interesting, I was not aware about 38 degrees and will follow their progress. Many people are concerned about the way our so-called democracy is being exploited by powerful self-interest groups aided by our own politicians. What we need is a proper, written, constitution without all the b.....t that surrounds us at the moment.

Papaoscar, I am amazed that you did not know about 38 degrees.
There are now lots of other petitions you can sign up to.

Yes, despite my own strong assumption that I know everything about everything, Dj, sometimes, (more and more, many say) I don't, so I shall be very pleased to catch up.

My grandson thinks I know everything, papa. I keep telling him I do not, but it's good to have someone have faith in me.

TTIP/ISDS - I've spent some time updating myself about all this and cannot believe what the EU and our government are covertly up to. Their plan quite clearly is to give multi-national corporations, often US controlled, total control over nation states, which means all of us, purely to maximise profit. I usually support the EU but over this I don't. Surely this is something UKIP should be doing something about instead of just taking the pay-cheque from Brussels and running away. Unless, of course, they secretly support all this deviousness. I must now go away and sharpen my rusty, trusty, old toothpick of protest. In the meantime more power to 38 degrees!

action.wdm.org.uk/ea-campaign/action.retrievestaticpage.do?ea_static_page_id=3521

This is a European campaign.
I have just been on we own it website, and according to them only 39% of people polled were against the TTIP. Could it be because we are not told?

Another thing I've noticed on the parliament website is that some MPs make a bit of money filling in Yougov etc. polls. Should they be allowed to do this? Surely we all know their opinions anyway. I wonder if any poll has been skewed in this way.

It just gets worse and worse doesn't it? It seems to constantly slip beneath the radar.

The powers-that-be are very good at deflecting our attention away from anything that they'd prefer to keep us in the dark about.

It confirms that we're regarded as just pawns in their games

Curiouser and curiouser, I have just read through this thread and have no idea who 38 degrees are, what TTIP/ISDs are, looks like I have a bit of research to do, which I will directly......

but before I do maybe some kind person, (for the benefit of newcomers to the discussion and these hidden stories which affect us all) would care to expand and clarify the abbreviations and their meanings.

After all there is power in knowledge, let us stop the select few wielding their power, by empowering the population with the basics at least.

I thank you.

off now to follow the links and find out more........

Q. What is TTIP

A. www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

Thank you for posting that geraldine To be quite frank it just makes my brain hurt.

Is this something that is going to go through parliament? - apologies if the article tells me this, but i am feeling pretty rough today. If not, by what means could anyone influence the decision?

Another question......has it not always been the case that US companies (or indeed any other nation's) could be in the running for NHS or any other public service contracts here?

I am also puzzled as to why David Babbs was called before the Business Select Committee in the first place. We only heard what I presume was a small clip, but, if it was to find out 38 degrees' views, was there any opportunity to do that at all? I do not think that someone should be called before a committee but not allowed to express their views.

You are not alone, * G62*, wool is being pulled over our eyes by those supposed to be our good shepherds. But take heart, before the evil ones get their way all this junk has to be agreed by all 28 EU members and ratified by many EU parliaments in accordance with their constitutions (pity the UK doesn't have one, but that's quite convenient for the devious UK gang-masters). So there is a good chance that the big bad barons won't get their evil way with the 'umble servants without a damned good fight. Bring it on!

Thanks Geraldine. That's the best explanation I've seen so far. But what to do? What to do? All the main parties except the Greens seem to be for it. There is no opposition. Why? Surely if it was so bad someone in power would oppose it? Are they all being bribed? Why the secrecy?

As I understand it at present US companies running things here are supposed to abide by our rules. I think if the agreement goes through our rules won't count. I think David Babbs was called before the committee to explain himself and 38 Degrees reason for raising the petition - not to allow him to question anything.

Hope you feel better tomorrow Mishap