Now that ISN'T funny.

As Galen remarked,there would have been no confusion in the East Midlands where I grew up as we also said of blunt speaking people "he doesn't just call it a spade,he calls it a b****y shovel". No hidden meaning there.

Yes, eloethan, but you also suggested we should avoid phrases or words that might give offence. I quote:"It is not "PC madness" to avoid using language in a way that might be insulting to other people."

I think the two things you said are somewhat contradictory. I was trying to clarify the proper distinction between them. That is all. I think these things important and that clarity is essential where freedom of expression is concerned.

But context is everything, isn't it? thatbags

I agree with thatbags.
It isnt context, it is intent.

Though having said that , we are back to the Charlie stuff
I so think that they had and have intent.

And dont think that they can use context[ a so called cartoon magazine] as an excuse and reason.

I agree with what grumppa says in his most recent post.

What cartoon? Are you posting on the wrong thread? Have I moved into a different universe?

If you talk of calling a spade a spade, I think it is generally recognised as a well-enough known saying not to be interpreted in any way other than that intended. However, by adding the "that's a joke" rider, there was a deliberate pointer at an insulting and racist interpretation and as such, inviting agreement or perhaps implying UKIP support for such slurs.It reminds me, although it is not the same as, those people who start by saying " Not being rude/racist/personal/ whatever. . . " and then go on to make pretty rude/racist/personal comments !

I think it was intended to be racist, poorly disguised as a common place saying.

I agree.

Agree, pompa

Yes, absent, context is everything. I'm not disagreeing about that. I never do. That tends to be what I stress in discussions like this. All I'm saying is that I don't agree that we should necessarily avoid using words or phrases that someone might take offence at. One doesn't always know what those are, for a start. I feel that the sentence I highlighted to illustrate where I disagreed is too all encompassing as it stands. That's all.

The issue of whether this particular spade remark in its particular context was racist is not what I was discussing. I agree with the OP and others in that I don't think the remark was 'funny'.

So I agree with pompa too.

I too believe it to be racist

I agree with absent
I do not think the remark as spoken was racist, rather it was inferring that someone else was racist in an ironic way.
I had never heard of the term as a racist term so it can't be widespread

He seemed to be 'having a dig' at NF (no pun intended).